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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Diggory Venn on Friday 23 October 20 19:44 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone has William Phillips, born about 1826, on their family tree please? I don’t know his place of birth. He married Harriett Wilkins at Eatington, Warwickshire in 1845, but is not listed with his wife on the 1851 census. She is recorded as married, rather than widowed, and whilst that may not be significant, I wonder if he was working away from home. I have traced a WP of the right age and occupation (blacksmith) in 1851 as a lodger in the home of Thomas Fisher, blacksmith at Blockley, not too far away. But that may be coincidence. If this is my man, he gave his birthplace as Campden, which is probably Chipping Campden, close to Blockley. In the 1861 census Hariett is described as widowed, so William must have died by then – but I haven’t managed to trace his death.
Grateful for any clues, thank you.
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Not the William Phillips who is in my tree -but his marriage is interesting
from image Parish register
Page23 entry 46
Marriage after banns church in Parish of Ealington
3 Mar 1845
William Phillips nineteen years Bachelor Blacksmith address Bearley father William CALDECOTE occ Blacksmith
Harriet Wilkins full age Spinster Dressmaker address Ealington father AdamWilkins occ Tailor
witnesses:Hannah Wilkins Emma Phillips Frederick Southen and Michael Bonhill (made his mark)
Bride and Groom signed as did first 3 witnesses
Suz
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Thank you Suz, that's helpful. I wonder if Emma Phillips was his mother or sister, maybe I can find an 1841 census with the family group.
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Ive been looking but not found anything yet
Have found a strong possibility for one of the witnesses - probably william's friend
In 1841 Michael Bonehill was age 15 ag lab and living in Bearley b in county
Cant find him in 1851 but he marrid Ann Wapples Shrive 10 July 1854
he eventually became a blacksmith
I wondered if Emma was his mother or sister??
Suz
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Thanks Suz, I'm gathering a few more points of information, which I'm sure will help. Grateful for your assistance.
Bill
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Could this be them on 1841 census in Aston Warwickshire
William Snr. occ sawyer :-\
surname transcribed as Goldarott
William Coldacott 35
William 15
John 13
Charles 10
Job 2
Sarah 38
Esther 8
Sarah 6
Ann 4
William & Sarah noted as not born in this county
Piece: 1150 Folio: 30 Page 22
Possible death William Snr.
William Coldicott
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 76
Registration District: Birmingham Warwickshire
Volume: 6d Page: 18
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Thanks Ladyhawk, that looks interesting. I'm puzzled about father and son having different surnames, could that be because William jnr was born before marriage?
Cheers,
Bill
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Here’s an 1841 census entry this William Coldicott occ blacksmith
Surname as transcribed on Anc*y
William Coldicot 35 blacksmith
Sarah Coldied 30
William Coldied 14
Mary Coldied 11
John Coldied 8
Emma Coldied 6
Thomas Coldied 1
Piece: 360 Folio: 6 Page Number: 7
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Many thanks, Ladyhawk.
Cheers,
Bill
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There's a tree on Ancestry for the Birmingham family that has quite a few of them in New Zealand by 1851. Mother's maiden name suggested to be Rouse
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Mabel, thank you.
Cheers,
Bill
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COLDICOTT, THOMAS
mmn GARDNER
Q3 1838 SHIPSTON ON STOUR UNION Volume 11 Page 358
Possible Sarah was a widowed Mrs Phillips when she married William?
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Here’s an 1841 census entry this William Coldicott occ blacksmith
Surname as transcribed on Anc*y
William Coldicot 35 blacksmith
Sarah Coldied 30
William Coldied 14
Mary Coldied 11
John Coldied 8
Emma Coldied 6
Thomas Coldied 1
Piece: 360 Folio: 6 Page Number: 7
this looks very likely to be the family - Emma (witness at marriage) would be william's sister or halfsister???
to me it looks like Sarah Phillips (father John) married (although not found marriage yet) William Caldicott -possibly she had children before marriage William Caldicott died sometime between 1841-51 and Sarah remarried
1851
Ebrington Gloucestershire
John Brosely Head M 48 ag lab
Sarah Brosely wife M 47
John Brosely son 16
Thomas Coldicott son in law 11
all b Ebrington Gloucestershire
marriage
19 Nov 1848
Ebrington Gloucester
John Brosely full age widower labourer Ebrington father Richard Brosely labourer
Sarah Coldicott full age widow Ebrington father John PHILLIPS occ labourer
witnesses John Roberts and William Caldicott (was this William Phillips??
Suz
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Not the William Phillips who is in my tree -but his marriage is interesting
from image Parish register
Page23 entry 46
Marriage after banns church in Parish of Ealington
3 Mar 1845
William Phillips nineteen years Bachelor Blacksmith address Bearley father William CALDECOTE occ Blacksmith
Harriet Wilkins full age Spinster Dressmaker address Ealington father AdamWilkins occ Tailor
witnesses:Hannah Wilkins Emma Phillips Frederick Southen and Michael Bonhill (made his mark)
Bride and Groom signed as did first 3 witnesses
Suz
Marriage certificate can be viewed on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XX5X-RC8
There's a tree on Ancestry for the Birmingham family that has quite a few of them in New Zealand by 1851. Mother's maiden name suggested to be Rouse
There’s this tree on family search which has father William Coldicott 1807-1862 mother Sarah Gower Rouse 1793-1851
William 1826-1903 New Zealand
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/L4JK-3TQ
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Thanks again, Suz and Ladyhawk. It's getting more and more interesting, I shall do some more explorations tomorrow.
Cheers,
Bill
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Here’s an 1841 census entry this William Coldicott occ blacksmith
Surname as transcribed on Anc*y
William Coldicot 35 blacksmith
Sarah Coldied 30
William Coldied 14
Mary Coldied 11
John Coldied 8
Emma Coldied 6
Thomas Coldied 1
Piece: 360 Folio: 6 Page Number: 7
this looks very likely to be the family - Emma (witness at marriage) would be william's sister or halfsister???
to me it looks like Sarah Phillips (father John) married (although not found marriage yet) William Caldicott -possibly she had children before marriage William Caldicott died sometime between 1841-51 and Sarah remarried
1851
Ebrington Gloucestershire
John Brosely Head M 48 ag lab
Sarah Brosely wife M 47
John Brosely son 16
Thomas Coldicott son in law 11
all b Ebrington Gloucestershire
marriage
19 Nov 1848
Ebrington Gloucester
John Brosely full age widower labourer Ebrington father Richard Brosely labourer
Sarah Coldicott full age widow Ebrington father John PHILLIPS occ labourer
witnesses John Roberts and William Caldicott (was this William Phillips??
Suz
1851 c Piece: 2045 Folio: 47 Page Number: 1
Stephen Davis 29
Violetta Davis 32
Frederick Davis 3
Mary A Keyte 13
Emma Coldicot 10 Eberington, Gloucestershire, house servant
John Tylor 24
James Cleynes 18
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Emma Coldicott Age: 21
Burial 23 Feb 1856
Burial Place: Ebrington, Gloucestershire
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Thomas Coldicutt, labourer married 1 Oct 1864 Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire
Father: William Coldicutt, blacksmith
Spouse: Ann Britter father Joseph
One witness John Coldicott
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John Coldicott Age: 25
Marriage 21 Nov 1857 Ilmington, Warwickshire
Spouse: Wince Johnson
Father: William Coldicott, blacksmith
I don’t know if there’s a connection here to Emma Phillips witness to William’s marriage
1871 census Piece: 3215 Folio: 131 Page Number: 5
John Fairbrother 43
Emma Fairbrother 45 Ebrington Gloucestershire
Wiliam Fairbrother 17
Charles Fairbrother 15
Frederick Fairbrother 12
Jamal Fairbrother 10
Albert Fairbrother 7
Ann Fairbrother 5
Bertram Fairbrother 1
Sarah BOSLEY 67 Ebrington Gloucestershire , visitor, widow
John Fairborough married Emma Phillips
Emma Phillips married 20 Jun 1850 Ebrington, Gloucestershire
Father: John Phillips, labourer
Spouse: John Fairbrothers
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1841 Erbington Mill Piece: 360 Folio: 12 Page 19
John Philips 60 Ag lab.
Emma Philips 15
Emma Phillips
Baptism 18 Jan 1825 Ebrington, Gloucestershire
Father: John Phillips, labourer Mother: Mary, Erbington Mill
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[quote author=Ladyhawk link=topic=839142.msg7049124#msg7049124 date=1603491939ith
I don’t know if there’s a connection here to Emma Phillips witness to William’s marriage
1871 census Piece: 3215 Folio: 131 Page Number: 5
John Fairbrother 43
Emma Fairbrother 45 Ebrington Gloucestershire
Wiliam Fairbrother 17
Charles Fairbrother 15
Frederick Fairbrother 12
Jamal Fairbrother 10
Albert Fairbrother 7
Ann Fairbrother 5
Bertram Fairbrother 1
Sarah BOSLEY 67 Ebrington Gloucestershire , visitor, widow
John Fairborough married Emma Phillips
Emma Phillips married 20 Jun 1850 Ebrington, Gloucestershire
Father: John Phillips, labourer
Spouse: John Fairbrothers
[/quote
this looks really good -so William's Aunt Emma would be the witness at William's marriage -which makes sense as William was 19 he would need an adult relative
Baptisms (haven't found William or Emma's yet
Baptisms Ebrington
all to parents William and Sarah Caldicott - William's occupation Blacksmith
all in name Caldicott
Mary Ann 3 May 1830
John 22 Jan 1832
Thhomas
possible death reg for William Caldicott Jun qtr 1842 Shipston on Soar
there are baptisms for Sarah Phillips with father John both at Ebrington
Sarah Phillips b 13 Dec 1804 parents John & Susannah
Sarah Phillips b 19 Aug 1894 parents John & Mary
Possibly Sarah with parents John and Mary is the one we are seeking - as she named her daghter Mary (ann)
Suz
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Is this Williams wife on 1851 census
Piece: 2074 Folio: 83 Page Number: 13
Hariet Philips 30 mar blacksmith
William Philips 5
Emma Philips 2
All born Eatington, Warwickshire
Emma Elizabeth Phillips
William Richard Phillips
Baptism 19 Nov 1848
Baptism Place: Ettington, Warwickshire
Father: William Phillips blacksmith Mother: Harriet
Emma Elizabeth Phillips
Marriage 17 Dec 1872 Ettington, Warwickshire
Spouse: Harvey Gatfield
Father: William Phillips, blacksmith
One witness Hannah Phillips
William Phillips Age: 30
Marriage 25 Nov 1877 Bordesley, St Andrew, Warwickshire
Father: William Phillips, blacksmith
Spouse: Amelia Lycod
witnesses H? & Emma Garfield
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Thanks again, you've given me so much information. It's beginning to look as if William Philips was a child, before marriage, of Sarah Phillips - and either William Caldecott was his biological father anyway, or he became his father in practical terms after they married. Ebrington, Blockley and Chipping Campden are very close to each other, and not far from Ettington (Eatington).
My interest is in William Phillips' marriage to Harriett Wilkins. Harriett was my wife's granny's granny. I think I can be fairly sure of William's parentage from what you've all discovered for me, thanks, and I'd now like to find out when William died - my impression is that he was working away from home at the time of the 1851 census, but deceased by the time of the 1861 census. But there are so many deaths of that name listed on Familysearch and FreeBMD that it's hard to find the right one.
I'm so grateful for everyone's help, I always get to learn more when I try Rootschat with a problem.
Cheers,
Bill
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Here is William Phillips on 1851 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGZP-R1T
Thomas Fisher Head 55 Campden, Gloucestershire
Mary Fisher Wife 60 Farnham, Surrey
William Phillips Lodger married 25 Campden, Gloucestershire, working blacksmith
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Thanks, Ladyhawk, yes I'm now pretty sure that's him. His wife was at home in Eatington, he was presumably working away.
So he must have died between 1851 and 1861, when she was recorded as a widow.
Cheers,
Bill
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Is this Harriet noted as a widow 1881c not sure about 1871/61
1881 Piece: 3098 Folio: 44 Page Number: 11
Thomas Wilkins 49
Harriet Phillips sister 65 Eatington, Warwickshire
Arthur Phillips nephew 8
Beatrice Phillips niece 6
1871 Piece: 3203 Folio: 44 Page Number: 10
Harriet Phillips 54 dressmaker
William Phillips 24 son
Hannah Phillips 18 dau
Thomas Wilkins 40 brother
Al born Eatington Warwickshire
1861 Piece: 2228 Folio: 42 Page Number: 10
Harriett Phillips 44 Eatington, Warwickshire
Hannah Phillips daughter 8 Eatington, Warwickshire
If Harriet is a widow in 1861 and daughter Hannah born c 1853
Looking for a possible death for William after 1853 before 1861 census
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There are a lot of deaths on FreeBMD in Warwickshire for persons named William Phillips
If you find one that you think could be your William you can cross reference using GRO indexes as that will give you an age https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Yes, those three are my Harriet. Thanks for the tip about GRO, I will try that later today.
Cheers,
Bill
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It's beginning to look as if William Philips was a child, before marriage, of Sarah Phillips - and either William Caldecott was his biological father anyway, or he became his father in practical terms after they married. Ebrington, Blockley and Chipping Campden are very close to each other, and not far from Ettington (Eatington).
I don't think this baptism has been posted as a possibility for William - apologies if I am duplicating
William Phillips, illegitimate
Baptism 25 Dec 1826 Eastington, Gloucestershire
Mother Sarah Phillips, abode Erbington
Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1913
EDIT to add - a possibility to consider for his death
William PHILLIPS age 32 (1827)
Burial 18 Mar 1859 Birmingham, Warwick
England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
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You are not duplicating - that looks very much like the one! And probably also that's the first one to explore re his death. I have to go out now, but I will be checking later and will let you know the result.
Once again, many thanks.
Cheers,
Bill
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And probably also that's the first one to explore re his death.
It's on family search and it gives address as workhouse
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGN6-B47
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Baptisms (haven't found William or Emma's yet
Baptisms Ebrington
all to parents William and Sarah Caldicott - William's occupation Blacksmith
all in name Caldicott
Mary Ann 3 May 1830
John 22 Jan 1832
Thhomas
possible death reg for William Caldicott Jun qtr 1842 Shipston on Soar
see reply 28 for William's baptism
Emma Coldunte
Baptism 3 Oct 1834 Ebrington, Gloucestershire
Father: William, blacksmith Mother: Sarah
the surname on baptism record is COLDICOTE
from GRO indexes gives age at death
COLDICOTT, WILLIAM age 42
1842 J Quarter in SHIPSTON ON STOUR Volume 11 Page 298
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Many thanks Ladyhawk, I am back home now and exploring further.
Cheers,
Bill
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I've been through all the FreeBMD death entries for William Phillips in Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire, to find ages at death in the GRO index.
This confirms that the most likely is the one Ladyhawk drew my attention to, March quarter in Birmingham, 1859, aged 32. The only other with the age in the 30s is December quarter in West Bromwich, 1859, aged 34, but that may be stretching his age a bit.
I'm intrigued to know if one of those is right, why was he so far from wife and home? Working away again? Or a split-up? And why in the workhouse at such a young age - maybe he'd fallen ill, or had an accident at work?
I'm going to order a PDF death certificate for the first one, as my next move. Maybe the cause of death may give me a clue.
Thanks everyone for your help!
Cheers,
Bill
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I wonder if I could seek further help from Rootschatters, please.
I’ve been trying to find the marriage of Sarah Phillips and William Caldecott, as identified in earlier posts. It looks as if it was before 1830 if Mary Ann Caldicott, baptised 3.5.1830 at Ebrington, was their first child. That seems quite likely.
On Familysearch I found a marriage between William Collicut and Sarah Phillips at Worcester on 12.11.1829. Some distance away from home, but not that far - and people did move away to do live-in work such as “in service”. If she’s the right Sarah, she would be 25 if she’s the one bapt in 1804, parents John/Susannah; or 35 if she’s the one bapt in 1794, parents John/Mary.
I think the later date is the more likely, simply because Sarah was very consistent in stating her age in the various censuses. Apart from 1841 (when ages were rounded down and are sometimes unreliable) the ages she gave all indicate her birth as about 1804.
I wondered what you might think of my reasoning above, and also whether anyone has access to the record of this 1829 marriage in the register. I can’t find it in GenesReunited - ordinarily I would have a look at Ancestry at our local library but that isn’t possible at present. It might be useful to see who were the witnesses, and occupations etc.
To update those who kindly helped me before, I did get a pdf of the death certificate of William Phillips in Birmingham, aged 32 in 1859 - which we thought might be my man, Sarah’s son. But there’s nothing else on the certificate (below) that supports the theory, so I don’t yet feel confident about this one.
Many thanks,
Bill
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To update those who kindly helped me before, I did get a pdf of the death certificate of William Phillips in Birmingham, aged 32 in 1859 - which we thought might be my man, Sarah’s son.
But there’s nothing else on the certificate (below) that supports the theory, so I don’t yet feel confident about this one.
Hi Bill - thanks for the update
One thing I did notice on the death cert. was William's occupation a Button Burnisher
wasn't your William Phillips occupation a Blacksmith
I checked the 1851 census and there is a William Phillips on 1851 census his occupation Button Burnisher but he's born c 1821 married to Drucilla, a son Charles they are living in Birmingham HO107; Piece: 2056; Folio: 49; Page: 2 not found them on 1861 census to confirm if Drucilla is widowed
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Thank you, Ladyhawk, yes my man was a blacksmith, so I think the census entry you have found confirms that the deceased wasn't the WP I'm after.
I may be at a dead end for tracing the death, maybe it hasn't been transcribed yet.
Cheers,
Bill