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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: iforani on Thursday 22 October 20 02:10 BST (UK)

Title: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Thursday 22 October 20 02:10 BST (UK)
Hi i am not sure whether rootschat experts may help here but I am trying to decipher a marriage certificate of my husband's great grandparents, Agostina Fiorina and Agostino Borserio. I am looking to find the parents of both of these people in this marriage certificate. The names of the parents I believe are after figlia di ....I had to do 5 snips of this document as I had to enlarge it to understand the small print. Any help whatsoever would be appreciated. Deb
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina
Post by: sami on Thursday 22 October 20 05:37 BST (UK)
Hi Deb,

I’ve been working through this and so far the only name I can see is:

figlia di Bassi Anna Maria

.......assuming that Bassi is the surname.

sami
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 22 October 20 07:24 BST (UK)
In the first snip I see

Pianto, Giovannae,   So Giovanni Pianto.   But I am not 100% sure about the P.

Followed by Agricola gia,  which I thought might be Agricultural Labourer or Farmer.
 Google translate says “Agricultural Ready”. Which doesn’t make much sense.
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: Mary50 on Thursday 22 October 20 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Deb.

Groom -- Borsario, Agostino, age 25, farmer, son of Paolo, age 60, farmer, and the late Pianto, Giovanna, former farmer 

Bride -- Fiorina, Agostina, age 28, farmer, daughter of Domenico, age 62, farmer, and Bassi, Anna Maria, farmer

Let me know if you need any other parts translated.

Mary50
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Thursday 22 October 20 22:49 BST (UK)
Thank you so much, Sami, Mckha489 and Mary50. You have all been a great help. Especially Mary for that extra information. Absolutely awesome, thank you! My husband's family will appreciate this help as not only now do they have the names of their great great grandparents but also their birth years of the great great grandfathers (approximate). Mary50, no this is the main information that I wanted but I would appreciate some help if I find any more relevant documents to interpret. So happy, thank you, will add this info into the family tree.  :) Deb
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Thursday 22 October 20 22:54 BST (UK)
PS I have gathered that Figlio di means son of and that figlia di means daughter of. Also anni di means age, agricola is farmer, and that before the names of the parents, di means living and su means deceased, so at the time of the marriage, Giovanna Pianto, the groom's mother, was deceased but the other parents were living. I have also seen the s's written like f's in these documents. Mary, can you see the year of the marriage in the snips that I shared? I believe it was the year 1891. Thank you all again! Deb
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Thursday 22 October 20 23:27 BST (UK)
PPS Mary50, would you be able to identify the commune that they were living in at Sondrio? It looks like Gueppo but I can't read it. They lived at Villa di Tirano I thought. I've looked through all the "communes"in Sondrio but I can't see anything like what is printed here. It might be the alphabet that is different? Thanks again, Deb
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: Mary50 on Friday 23 October 20 00:15 BST (UK)
Deb,

This is the publication of banns.  The application for marriage is dated October 31st, 1890.  The boxes on the left note that the banns were affixed to the door of city hall on the 2nd, 9th, and 13th of November, 1890.  The marriage should have taken place shortly after that. 

fu' (accent on the u) -- of the late (one parent)
furono -- of the late (two parents)
figlio di -- son of
figlia di -- daughter of
di anni -- of age

In this case the word gia'(accent on the a) might also mean "former resident of this comune"

The word you see before "comune" is  "questo"=this

The comune is Villa di Tirano

I'll be happy to help if you find any other certificates.

Mary





Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Friday 23 October 20 00:32 BST (UK)
Mary, thank you so much for all of this information. It is really helpful!!  :) :) Deb
Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Friday 23 October 20 07:30 BST (UK)
Mary50, I have another huge request for you. This is a snip of my husband's grandmother's birth record in 1889 in Villa di Tirano, Sondrio, Italy. It states that her father was Giovanni and I am not sure whether the woman mentioned (Maria Scaletti) was his mother or his wife and it is strange as it has fu after her name I think which is deceased? Alan's family had believed that Maria Scaletti was the mother (and that the father was Domenico but they got this wrong). Help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Deb
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: Mary50 on Friday 23 October 20 15:03 BST (UK)
Hi Deb.

Year 1879 (not 1889), 3rd March (it looks like the clerk started writing Feb --- then changed to March) appeared Romeo Giovanni, age 36, farmer, who declared that on the 2nd of the current month at the house on Via Beltramelli at no. 215, from Scarletti Maria, his wife, farmer, living with him ........ What you see as "fu' " is actually "sua"=his.

Here is a view of Via Beltramelli.  The numbers today only seem to go into the 30's.  Perhaps either the 2 or the 5 represent an apt. no.  Beautiful scenery.

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2048959,10.135653,3a,75y,303.39h,87.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s87bRCHr2Kc5L6WHNP5KB_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Mary
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Saturday 31 October 20 11:31 GMT (UK)
Oh wow, Mary, thank you so much for this! It does look very pretty! Their surname was Ronco not Romeo, but thank you for that. The s's were written as f's which is interesting to know. I had noticed that before in a name (Bassi) but had forgotten that fact. Thank you for the extra information on the address. You have gone above and beyond. You are also right about the year being 1879. My husband's grandmother was in her 30's when she came to Australia. It was an arranged marriage and it took some time for her future husband to become established in Australia after many setbacks, such as diseases in cattle, rust on a coffee plantation, an accident etc. They eventually married and had one son. I suspect she was a bit old to have any more children (for those days). Thank you again. Deb
 
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: Mary50 on Sunday 01 November 20 15:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Deb.  Glad to be of help.  Sorry, should have looked more closely at the name, definitely, Ronco.  Will be glad to help out with any other documents you may find.

Mary
Title: Re: Marriage Borserio to Fiorina - Italian Translation help
Post by: iforani on Wednesday 04 November 20 06:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Mary!  :) :) :)