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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: emjayf on Monday 19 October 20 22:12 BST (UK)

Title: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Monday 19 October 20 22:12 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Been a long time since I looked at this but my Dad's death a few weeks back has made me think of family tree stuff again.  I just wondered, without birth certificates, can you check the parents of a child born?

I tell you why. My Great Great grandparents John Gibson Fouldes and Julia Fouldes (nee Oates) appear on the 1911 census (in Sheffield) and here, for the first time, it mentions they had three children that died.

They had 5 children that lived (John Gibson, George, Frank, James and Edith) and I can track them until death but I wondered about the missing children.

There is a Harry Fouldes born in Sep 1888 (in the same area as their other children: Ecclesall B.) but I see no death (another Harry was also born here but in 1894 and he died in 1934 aged 40. I would know if he was John and Julia's son).

Also a Herbert Fouldes was born Jun 1897 in Ecclesall B. And a Death is recorded in Sep 1898 for Herbert Fouldes Age 1 in the same district, Ecclesall B.

That gives two possible offspring but only one with a birth and death date. One has just a birth date. One remains missing.

So yes a puzzle for me.  I did try that free website to look up baptisms but it doesn't really give many clues.

Thanks all
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 19 October 20 22:20 BST (UK)
Have you tried the GRO website which gives mothers maiden names for births?

If you put "Fouldes" for the surname and "Oates" for mothers maiden name you can cross check the children that come up to see if any could be yours. 

Keep in mind spellings too, Fouldes and Oates could be written differently.  I would look for you but can't open the site at the moment. 
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: steve100 on Monday 19 October 20 22:21 BST (UK)
Herbert Fouldes,
9/6/1897
Heeey,Christ Church
Father John Gibson Cab Driver
Mother Julia
12 Margeresia Sreet.

Julia Fouldes
3/12/1883
St Mary,Bramall Lane
Father John Coal Dealer
Mother Julia
14 Copley Street.

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 19 October 20 22:28 BST (UK)
There's a death for Julia Foulds age 6 in Dec 1889 Ecclesall B district.

Death for Harry Foulds age 0 in Mar 1889 Ecclesall B district.

So along with Herbert that gives the missing 3 - providing their birth registrations confirm mothers maiden name as Oates.  I think it will especially as the little girl was called Julia for her mother.
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Monday 19 October 20 22:37 BST (UK)
Herbert Fouldes,
9/6/1897
Heeey,Christ Church
Father John Gibson Cab Driver
Mother Julia
12 Margeresia Sreet.

Julia Fouldes
3/12/1883
St Mary,Bramall Lane
Father John Coal Dealer
Mother Julia
14 Copley Street.


Oh that is wonderful! I never knew they had a second girl. Named after her mother as well.  Well actually it was about 11 months after their wedding so she woukd be their first child. I wonder when she died? Certainly before the 1891 census. Ahhh just seen this
There's a death for Julia Foulds age 6 in Dec 1889 Ecclesall B district.

Death for Harry Foulds age 0 in Mar 1889 Ecclesall B district.

So along with Herbert that gives the missing 3 - providing their birth registrations confirm mothers maiden name as Oates.  I think it will especially as the little girl was called Julia for her mother.


Thanks that shows the Julia baby .
I seem to have been correct with Herbert as that is the same address as the family are found on the 1891 census. Thank you. I just needed the third child who died and I had wondered if it was Harry. Thanks for the help. This has been helpful, thanks

MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Dalum on Monday 19 October 20 23:07 BST (UK)
from http://www.sheffieldindexers.com (http://www.sheffieldindexers.com)

FOULDES, Harry (son of Jno G Foulds, age 5 months).
Died at 12 Magerrison S.; Buried on January 3, 1889 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896.

FOULDS, Julia (Daughter of John G Foulds, age 6).
Died at 12 Margerison Street; Buried on October 25, 1889 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896/44226.

FOULDES, Herbert (son of J.G. Fouldes, age 14 months).
Died at 12 Margerison Street; Buried on July 16, 1898 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896 Attending Minister: C.G. Holt.

Also buried in this grave:

HOWARD, Harold (Retired, age 51).
Died at 27 Fielding Road; Buried on November 13, 1951 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: Officiating Minister, ~: Removed from Sheffield Parish.

TAYLOR, George (Chair maker, age 84).
Died at 22 Cross Addy Street; Buried on January 22, 1873 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.

WORSMAN, Elsie (dau of S Worsman, age 14 months).
Died at 10 Norroy St; Buried on October 9, 1907 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: Officiating Minister, C G Holt

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Monday 19 October 20 23:31 BST (UK)
from http://www.sheffieldindexers.com (http://www.sheffieldindexers.com)

FOULDES, Harry (son of Jno G Foulds, age 5 months).
Died at 12 Magerrison S.; Buried on January 3, 1889 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896.

FOULDS, Julia (Daughter of John G Foulds, age 6).
Died at 12 Margerison Street; Buried on October 25, 1889 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896/44226.

FOULDES, Herbert (son of J.G. Fouldes, age 14 months).
Died at 12 Margerison Street; Buried on July 16, 1898 in General ground;
Grave Number 34, Section M1 of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Remarks: 17896 Attending Minister: C.G. Holt.

Very interesting! That pretty much nails it. So are there baptism notes and dates for Harry and Herbert, like there was with Julia?

Cheers
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Dalum on Tuesday 20 October 20 01:17 BST (UK)
Steve posted the details of Herbert's baptism along with Julia's above. I can't find a baptism for Harry.

Hugh
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Dalum on Tuesday 20 October 20 01:52 BST (UK)
As an aside... the birth of Harry appears as expected in the FreeBMD database, and on their site you can check the image of the original quarterly index. It clearly says Harry FOULDES.

*but*

In the more recent online version of the GRO Index, the one which has the mother's maiden name, there is only...

TOULDES, HARVEY        (mmn) OAKS     
GRO Reference: 1888  SEP Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 371

Hugh
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 20 October 20 02:03 BST (UK)
It would appear that 1891 and 1901 they are listed as FOULDS

1891 REF RG12/3809 FOLIO 81 PAGE 9
John G Foulds 29 born Notts
Julia 33 Yorks
John G 6 Sheffield
Edith 3 Sheffield

1901 RG13/4356 FOLIO 61 PAGE 5
John G Foulds 39
Julia 44
John G 16
Edith 11
George 9
Frank 7
James 6

All siblings born Sheffield

I believe John G Foulkes married to an Alice Maud Beaumont 1912 CORRECTION, THIS MIGHT BE HIS SON IF JULIA WAS STILL ON 1911 CENSUS

Louisa Maud

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 20 October 20 02:10 BST (UK)
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7NMK-JPZ

1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9T7-L4R

1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWKF-TZL

FOULDS, JULIA mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1883  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 330
Died: FOULDS, JULIA  6 
GRO Reference: 1889  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 244

FOULDES, JOHN  GIBSON mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 399

FOULDES, HARRY
1888 S Quarter in Ecclesall B. 9c   371
As provided by Dalum:
TOULDES, HARVEY mmn OAKS 
GRO Reference: 1888  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 371
Died: FOULDS, HARRY 0 
GRO Reference: 1889  M Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 223

FOULDES, EDITH mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1890  J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 353

FOULDES, GEORGE mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1891  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 412

FOULDER, FRANK mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1893  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 456

FOULDES, JAMES mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1895  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 435

FOULDES, HERBERT mmn OATES 
GRO Reference: 1897  J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 467
Died:FOULDES, HERBERT  1 
GRO Reference: 1898  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 247

Jamjar
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 20 October 20 02:24 BST (UK)
Have we seen a similar  topic before?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 20 October 20 02:51 BST (UK)
Have we seen a similar  topic before?

Louisa Maud

The names ring a bell, but nothing else is coming up in search?  :-\

Jamjar
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Tuesday 20 October 20 09:51 BST (UK)
Steve posted the details of Herbert's baptism along with Julia's above. I can't find a baptism for Harry.

Hugh

So he did! Sorry was late when I wrote that!

Thanks
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Tuesday 20 October 20 10:18 BST (UK)
It would appear that 1891 and 1901 they are listed as FOULDS

1891 REF RG12/3809 FOLIO 81 PAGE 9
John G Foulds 29 born Notts
Julia 33 Yorks
John G 6 Sheffield
Edith 3 Sheffield

1901 RG13/4356 FOLIO 61 PAGE 5
John G Foulds 39
Julia 44
John G 16
Edith 11
George 9
Frank 7
James 6

All siblings born Sheffield

I believe John G Foulkes married to an Alice Maud Beaumont 1912 CORRECTION, THIS MIGHT BE HIS SON IF JULIA WAS STILL ON 1911 CENSUS

Louisa Maud

Thank you, yes I have all that. I managed, years ago, to find copies of the censuses that the other children (and parents) are on. All the way up to and including the 1911 one. You are correct with the marriage. Alice (always referred to as Maud) married my great grandad and my grandad (also John Gibson Fouldes - the third and last to be named this) was their only child.

Thank you
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Tuesday 20 October 20 10:27 BST (UK)
As an aside... the birth of Harry appears as expected in the FreeBMD database, and on their site you can check the image of the original quarterly index. It clearly says Harry FOULDES.

*but*

In the more recent online version of the GRO Index, the one which has the mother's maiden name, there is only...

TOULDES, HARVEY        (mmn) OAKS     
GRO Reference: 1888  SEP Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 371

Hugh

Wow. So the official website run by "experts" has transcribed it wrong, but the freeBMD run by volunteers has it right? That doesn't surprise me!  :)

I am guessing poor young Harry didn't get a chance to be baptised. I know they were pretty soon after birth, but maybe he was too ill during his short 6 month life.

MJ

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Tuesday 20 October 20 23:01 BST (UK)
Hi all, so would the mother and father of this family have a burial listed online?

I *think* I see Julia Fouldes on the Free BMD under Deaths (Date: Dec 1932, Surname: Fouldes, Christian Name: Julia, Age: 75, Death place: Wortley)

I know the death of her husband. Under Free BMD under Deaths (Date: Mar 1926, Surname: Fouldes, Christian  Name: John G(ibson), Age: 64, Death place: Sheffield)

Thanks
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Wednesday 28 October 20 23:56 GMT (UK)
Hi all, without getting a birth certificate is there a way I can check a death of a relative?

My relative Edith Fouldes married Harry D. Pearson (the Free BMD website mention  September 1915 marriage).  A relative told me she died of cancer in the 1950s. I did find a death in Sheffield, on the Free BMD website, saying:
PEARSON   Edith   67.

It would make sense with her birth date. I don't know if there are any burial,  church or newspaper details? Also I wonder if it might mention when her husband Harry D Pearson died?

Thanks all.
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 29 October 20 00:08 GMT (UK)
Hi all, so would the mother and father of this family have a burial listed online?

I *think* I see Julia Fouldes on the Free BMD under Deaths (Date: Dec 1932, Surname: Fouldes, Christian Name: Julia, Age: 75, Death place: Wortley)

I know the death of her husband. Under Free BMD under Deaths (Date: Mar 1926, Surname: Fouldes, Christian  Name: John G(ibson), Age: 64, Death place: Sheffield)

Thanks
MJ

FOULDES, JOHN  GIBSON  64 
GRO Reference: 1926  M Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 555

FOULDES, JULIA  75 
GRO Reference: 1932  D Quarter in WORTLEY  Volume 09C  Page 316

Jamjar
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 29 October 20 00:14 GMT (UK)
Hi all, without getting a birth certificate is there a way I can check a death of a relative?

My relative Edith Fouldes married Harry D. Pearson (the Free BMD website mention  September 1915 marriage).  A relative told me she died of cancer in the 1950s. I did find a death in Sheffield, on the Free BMD website, saying:
PEARSON   Edith   67.

It would make sense with her birth date. I don't know if there are any burial,  church or newspaper details? Also I wonder if it might mention when her husband Harry D Pearson died?

Thanks all.
MJ

Dec 1887 Ecclesall B. 9c 496
PEARSON Henry William
ANDREWS Mary Elizabeth

PEARSON, HENRY  WILLIAM mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1850  D Quarter in OF THE ECCLESALL BIERLOW UNION  Volume 22  Page 187

1871: Henry William: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBCV-RDS

1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7L38-63Z
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9RF-K7W
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWKZ-KZP

Children:

PEARSON, HARRY  DENTON mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1888  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 324
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVNG-G3K
Marriage:
Sep 1915 Ecclesall B. 9c 992
PEARSON Harry D
FAULDES Edith
Deaths:
PEARSON, HARRY  DENTON  66 
GRO Reference: 1955  S Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 02D  Page 98
PEARSON, EDITH  67 
GRO Reference: 1957  S Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 02D  Page 3

PEARSON, WILLIAM mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1888  D Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 575

PEARSON, HARRIET mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1892  D Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 648

PEARSON, ETHEL mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1895  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 357

PEARSON, EDWARD mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1899  M Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 408

PEARSON, ROBERT mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1901  M Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 488

PEARSON, ALFRED mmn ANDREWS 
GRO Reference: 1903  J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 497
Died:
PEARSON, ALFRED       1 
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 267

Jamjar
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 29 October 20 01:42 GMT (UK)
Mar 1850 Sheffield 22 482
PEARSON William
DENTON Elizabeth   

1851, Henry and folks: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SP9S-HHB

1861, Henry’s folks and siblings: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7LY-FJY

1871, Henry William: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBCV-RDS

1881, Henry’s folks and siblings: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Y-ZF16

1891, Henry’s folks and siblings: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7LQN-WMM

PEARSON, HENRY  WILLIAM mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1850  D Quarter in OF THE ECCLESALL BIERLOW UNION  Volume 22  Page 187
Married:
Dec 1887 Ecclesall B. 9c 496
PEARSON Henry William
ANDREWS Mary Elizabeth

PEARSON, MARY  JANE mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1852  D Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 367

PEARSON, JOHN  THOMAS mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1854  D Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 333

PEARSON, FRANK mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1864  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 217

PEARSON, ARTHUR mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1867  S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 232

PEARSON, EDGAR mmn DENTON 
GRO Reference: 1869  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 233

Jamjar



Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Thursday 29 October 20 11:01 GMT (UK)

FOULDES, JOHN  GIBSON  64 
GRO Reference: 1926  M Quarter in SHEFFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 555

FOULDES, JULIA  75 
GRO Reference: 1932  D Quarter in WORTLEY  Volume 09C  Page 316

Jamjar

My grandad, born 1913, would have remember them rather well then. Especially Julia. I wished I had asked him about them when I was little! I used to record my family on my tape recorder. But, as a child, I was more interested in winding them up! What a waste!

Thanks for those. I think I had the GRO details already somewhere. I meant was there somewhere it listed where they were buried - I am not sure what is available. Be nice to know if there is a grave somewhere.

Cheers
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 29 October 20 20:03 GMT (UK)
www.sheffieldindexers.com Is the site that will help with your Fouldes burials I can see A Julia in 1932 and a John in 1926 in Abbey Lane Cemetery Sheffield.

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 29 October 20 22:01 GMT (UK)
www.sheffieldindexers.com Is the site that will help with your Fouldes burials I can see A Julia in 1932 and a John in 1926 in Abbey Lane Cemetery Sheffield.

FOULDS John Gibson (Car Examiner, age 64)
Died at the Royal Hospital; Buried on January 5 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 6400; Section L of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

FOULDS Julia (Widow, age 75)
Died at 75 Valentine Crescent; Buried on October 21 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 6400; Section L of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

PEARSON, Harry Denton (Silversmith, age 66).
Died at 61 Sturge St; Buried on July 14, 1955 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 6400, Section L of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield

PEARSON, Edith (Widow, age 67).
Died at 46 Delph Street; Buried on July 5, 1957 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 6400, Section L of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

Possibly their son George and wife:

FOULDES George (Baker, age 44)
Died at 79 Albert Rd; Buried on November 26 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 9819; Section O of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

FOULDES Annie Leah (Widow, age 74)
Died at 21 Bates St; Buried January 22 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 9819; Section O of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

Jamjar

Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 29 October 20 23:22 GMT (UK)
Do you have names of children of Harry Denton and Edith?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Friday 30 October 20 00:43 GMT (UK)
Do you have names of children of Harry Denton and Edith?

Jamjar

No, they both died childless. I don't know if she had health problems. In all photos she had quite dark circles under her eyes.

Cheers
MJ
Title: Re: Missing children
Post by: emjayf on Friday 30 October 20 00:46 GMT (UK)
www.sheffieldindexers.com Is the site that will help with your Fouldes burials I can see A Julia in 1932 and a John in 1926 in Abbey Lane Cemetery Sheffield.

Possibly their son George and wife:

FOULDES George (Baker, age 44)
Died at 79 Albert Rd; Buried on November 26 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 9819; Section O of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

FOULDES Annie Leah (Widow, age 74)
Died at 21 Bates St; Buried January 22 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 9819; Section O of Abbey Lane Cemetery, Sheffield.

Jamjar


Yep George was John Gibson and Julia's son and Leah (Shimwell) was his wife. They married but didn't have children.

MJ