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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: ablanchishere on Monday 19 October 20 12:41 BST (UK)
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Hello! First-time poster here, was hoping to get some help with working out exactly who the Nobles in my family tree are.
I know they were originally from Fraserburgh/Broadsea. My great-grandmother was Mary Noble (b:1915), who came to Australia with her parents Joseph & Mary Noble from Fraserburgh. Here is the direct line as far as I've been able to work out (but correct me if I'm wrong!):
Joseph Noble (b:1868, Fraserburgh) - Mary Bella Hutcheson
Alexander Noble (b: 1846, Fraserburgh) - Ann Stephen
Andrew Noble (b: 1817, Fraserburgh) - Helen May
Alexander Noble (b:1775, Fraserburgh) - Mary Tait
... and here's where I've been getting a bit confused. I've seen conflicting connections on different family trees that I have seen on MyHeritage & Ancestry. I have limited expertise in navigating the older Scottish records/ resources as well.
I know that Alexander's (b:1775) father is also an Alexander Noble (& his mother: Christian Buchan). But which Alexander Noble is he? And who exactly is his father? I would love any help or suggestions that people could point me towards. His nickname seems to have been Alexander "Noch" Noble, which I know means 'little'. I have seen some people record Alexander "Noch" Noble's father as Alexander "Old Gunner" Noble (Mother - Elspet Ritchie). Other times I have seen his mother recorded as "Jean Noble" (and Old Gunner as her father) and his father as "James Gordon." Are there any distant relations on here that knows why this might be so? Or which sources of information I might be able to go to in order to work it out? I have seen some anecdotal discussion on Alexander "Noch" being an illegitimate child of Gordon's, but I have not been able to locate a source to confirm/deny this. Was there a particular tradition or practice in Scotland/ Aberdeen for illegitimate children that might be reflected in the records of c. 1700s?
With thanks to whoever takes the time to read this, Ashley from Melbourne, Australia. :)
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Have you checked the original records on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you can search for free and a small charge to pay to view the records.
As an example there are 9 Alexander Noble's born Fraserburgh 1770-1780
Colin
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I was under the impression that tee-names were passed down in families, so that a son's tee-name was the same as his father's, but maybe that's not right?
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Joseph Noble (b:1868, Fraserburgh) - Mary Bella Hutcheson
The IGI has the birth of Joseph Noble, son of Alexander Noble and Ann Stephen, on 15 July 1868.
Alexander Noble (b: 1846, Fraserburgh) - Ann Stephen
Married 17 October 1867. Alexander baptised 3 June 1846 in Fraserburgh.
Andrew Noble (b: 1817, Fraserburgh) - Helen May
1851 census shows at Duke Street, Fraserburgh Andrew Noble, 32; Hellen Noble, 29; Joseph Noble, 6; Alexander Noble, 4; Helen Noble, 2. he 1871 gives his age as 53 and the 1881 says 64. So far, so good.
However Andrew Noble, married to Helen May, died in Fraserburgh in 1885, father Alexander Noble, mother Margaret Noble, maiden surname Noble. Not Mary Tait. The informant was Andrew's son Joseph.
There are three records of marriages of an Alexander Noble to a Margaret Noble
26 April 1809 in Inverness
14 November 1824 in Fraserburgh
19 November 1826 in Fraserburgh - though the last two could perhaps be the same one, the second record being a mistake.
The Inverness couple had four children baptised in Inverness between 1810 and 1816. It is possible that they might have moved to Fraserburgh and had Andrew there in 1817 or 1818.
The Fraserburgh couple(s) had three children baptised in Fraserburgh
Jean, 1 December 1832
Helen, 2 February 1833
Alexander, 4 June 1833
Obviously they can't all be the same family as there is only six months spanning all three.
... and here's where I've been getting a bit confused. I've seen conflicting connections on different family trees that I have seen on MyHeritage & Ancestry.
Never trust anything you find online, unless it's an image of an original document. In particular never trust any online tree, especially those on Ancestry or MyHeritage. See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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Thank you both for your help - I'll be following up on both those leads.
I have been treating a lot of the family trees on those sites with caution, especially as it seems like a lot of the information has likely been replicated from 1 or 2 sources? I’ll definitely be following up the info from Andrew's death record and correcting course.
I'm not sure what tee-names are - I assume that's what I've been calling 'nicknames'? Would love to know more about that.
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I'm not sure what tee-names are - I assume that's what I've been calling 'nicknames'? Would love to know more about (that.
Yes, they are nicknames of a sort.
In many of the fishing villages in the north-east of Scotland, a large proportion of the population has only a small number of proper surnames, and tee-names (there are other terms for them) are used to distinguish the members of different families.
See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=779568.0
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/names
http://britishgenes.blogspot.com/2013/05/scottish-tee-names-in-valuation-rolls.html (but the links in the article don't work any longer)
https://www.oocities.org/taylorhomeca/teenames.html
https://www.whatsinaname.net/faq.html#13
The following is from https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/surnames
To-names or T-names meaning 'other names' or nicknames, were prevalent particularly in the fishing communities of North East Scotland, but were also seen in the Borders and to a lesser extent in the West Highlands.
In those areas where a relatively small number of surnames were in use, T-names were tacked on to the name to distinguish individuals with the same surname and forename. The nickname may have referred to a distinguishing feature or be the name of the fishing boat on which the person was employed. These T-names have made their way into the records. For example, amongst the numerous John Cowies of Buckie can be found fisherman John Cowie Carrot who married Isabella Jappie of Cullen in 1892. Was this perhaps a reference to the colour of his hair?
The T-name appears on a statutory results page in brackets in order to distinguish it from a middle name for example James (Rosie) Cowie, James (Bullen) Cowie, Jessie (Gyke) Murray, and may be designated in inverted commas on the image of the actual entry.
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I've since been looking into Alexander and Margaret Noble, and have a copy of the death certificate of Andrew Noble (1817-1885). I was wondering if anyone can read the occupation/ profession of the father (Alexander) on this certificate? I've tried googling a few different kinds of abbreviations for common occupations, but had no luck. (I think I've attached it to this post)
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Hi,
I think Alexander's occupation could be Pilot
Looby :)
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Agree. Definitely Pilot.
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For a fascinating account of life in Broadsea and the old fisher families there, I recommend you to read The Christian Watt Papers.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7738124-the-christian-watt-papers
Christian's mother was a Noble and she mentions many other members of that family in her account of life there.
Harry
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Thanks hdw,
Apologies for the late reply, I've been having a good look around for an ebook version of the Christian Watt Papers and have had no luck. Looks like I'll have to find a paperback (hopefully someone's got a secondhand copy in Australia!). Thank you very much for the recommendation!
On another note, for those that are interested, I've since been able to narrow down the Nobles in my family tree to:
Joseph Noble (b:1868, Fraserburgh) - Mary Bella Hutcheson
Alexander Noble (b: 1846, Fraserburgh) - Ann Stephen
Andrew Noble (b: 1817, Fraserburgh) - Helen May
Alexander Noble (b: 1779, Fraserburgh) - Margaret Noble
Gilbert Noble (1745 or 1755, Fraserburgh) - Margaret Crawford
If anyone is also a descendent of Gilbert Noble & Margaret Crawford, I'd be interested to compare notes (not to be confused with the Gilberts of a similar age married to 'Ann Crawford' and 'Jane Crawford' respectively).
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I've been having a good look around for an ebook version of the Christian Watt Papers and have had no luck. Looks like I'll have to find a paperback.
There are 31 copies for sale at www.abebooks.com at the moment.
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Hello Ablanchishere
I see your post was 4 years ago but I am new to this site and a just learner. I am interested in the Nobles you are referring to and I stumbled upon your post by searching for Alexander Noble.
The Alexander Noble born 1846 married to Ann Stephen are my GG grandparents. I have a photo of them and their family. Your GG-grandparents Joseph Noble and Mary Bella Hutcheson are both in the photo. I would assume they were married at the time so after 1894. My great-grandmother Margaret was Joseph's sister, she is also in the photo.
Do you have any photos of them?
I am in NSW Australia.
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Hello Ablanchishere
I see your post was 4 years ago but I am new to this site and a just learner. I am interested in the Nobles you are referring to and I stumbled upon your post by searching for Alexander Noble.
The Alexander Noble born 1846 married to Ann Stephen are my GG grandparents. I have a photo of them and their family. Your GG-grandparents Joseph Noble and Mary Bella Hutcheson are both in the photo. I would assume they were married at the time so after 1894. My great-grandmother Margaret was Joseph's sister, she is also in the photo.
Do you have any photos of them?
I am in NSW Australia.
Hello,
I apologise for taking a while to respond - I do check in on this site periodically to see what updates there might be and am always excited to see new responses!
My great grandmother, Mary Noble, daughter of Mary Bella Hutcheson, did have different ephemera and photos that she brought with her when her family migrated to Australia (WA for us!).
I wonder if the photo you have was taken at a similar time to the one I've attached below (at least I think I have!) which has Alexander Noble & Ann Stephen, Joseph Noble & Mary Bella Hutcheson, Robert Prahm Noble and a couple of other siblings of Joseph Noble I believe, c. 1890s.
My research isn't fully collated and I am often sick so I don't always respond as promptly as I should, however, feel free to reach out via private message and I can ask relatives what other photos of the family we have, if you are trying to put faces to relatives.
I think I also have a good lead on the primary research question of this post - that is, which Alexander Noble is he (the grandfather of the Alexander who married Ann Stephen) - but still need to cross-reference a few things before I post an update here for anyone following this branch of the Fraserburgh/Broadsea Nobles.
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Thanks so much for your reply. That is the same photo that I have! It is the only photo I have of any of those people.
The woman on the fair right with the fair hair is my Great Grandmother, Margaret, born 1874.
Alexander and Ann are seated. The boy between them is Robert Prahm born 1883. Joseph, born 1868, is standing behind Ann. Mary Bella (Joseph’s wife) is standing behind Alexander.
On the photo I have, someone has written that the lad between Joseph and Mary Bella is Andrew and the other lad is unknown. Andrew was born in 1878. There is also a son named William born in 1876 and another son Alexander born 1872. I don’t know if the unnamed lad is William and that Alexander was not there for the photo?
There were two other daughters born, one called Ann born 1870 died 1878 and another called Ann Mary Helen born 1881 died 1882.
If you have any further and/or different information about the photo I would be thrilled to receive it
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My great grandfather Donald Noble (1861-1942) and great grandmother Helen lynn Melville (1888-1972) lived in Inverness and as far as I know the Noble line have lived in Inverness. However I had noticed on through lines on ancestry I noticed some relatives in Australia had linked them back to an Andrew noble born in 1740 in Fraserburgh. I was wondering if there is a connection to the broadsea Fraserburgh Noble family?
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My great grandfather Donald Noble (1861-1942) and great grandmother Helen lynn Melville (1888-1972) lived in Inverness and as far as I know the Noble line have lived in Inverness. However I had noticed on through lines on ancestry I noticed some relatives in Australia had linked them back to an Andrew noble born in 1740 in Fraserburgh. I was wondering if there is a connection to the broadsea Fraserburgh Noble family?
Never trust anything you find online, and especially on commercial web sites like Ancestry, unless it's an image of an original document, and even then be wary of errors in the original.
When you find a tree online, it is always necessary to check its contents by looking at the original documents, because there are many trees out there that are a mixture or errors, guesswork, assumptions and fantasy.
From the indexes to the original records at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Donald Noble married Helen Kirk Lynn Melville in Inverness in 1916. If Donald was born in 1861, he would have been 55 in 1916, which is quite old for a first marriage. Have you got a copy of the marriage certificate? It will confirm Donald's age and tell you the names of his parents including his mother's maiden surname.
There is a birth of a Donald Melville Noble there in 1917, and an Ian William Noble in 1925. Donald Melville Noble, aged 67, died in Inverness in 1984. All three of these have mother's surname listed as Melville.
Donald Noble, aged 60, died in Inverness in 1942 aged 60. If this age is accurate he would have been born in 1881/1882. Do you have a copy of the death certificate to confirm his age, the name of his wife and the names of his parents?
There is a birth of a Donald Noble, mother's surname Stephen, in Inverness in 1881. There are also births of Jane in 1875, Alexander in 1877 and Isabella in 1879 in Inverness, mother Stephen.
In the 1891 census in Inverness are Donald Noble, 50, born Daviot, Inverness-shire; wife Jane, 42; children Jane M, 15; Isabella, 12 and Donald, 9; and James Stephen, boarder, aged 40, all born in Inverness. So I reckon that this is the Donald Noble who died in 1942 aged 60, assuming that his age in the index is correct.
The 1881 confirms Jane's surname; it lists Donald Noble, 42, born Boleskine, Inverness-shire, wife Jane Stephen, 35; daughter Jane, 6; daughter Isabella, 2; and brother-in-law James Stephen, 32; all born in Inverness.
Donald Noble and James Stephen are both listed as house painters in 1881 and 1891.
In 1871 Donald Noble, house painter, 31, born Dores, Inverness-shire is with his widowed mother Isabella, 56, born Daviot.
In 1861 Isabella Noble, widow, born Daviot, is in Inverness with sons Donald, 19, painter; Allan, 14; and Andrew, 12.
In 1851 in Inverness are Isabella, widow, 37, born Daviot; and children Donald, 11; David, 8; Margaret, 6; Allan, 4; Andrew, 2.
And in 1841, at Tullich, Daviot, are Alexander Noble, 30, agricultural labourer; Isabella, 28; John, 4; and Donald, 2; all born in Inverness-shire.
These match the sons of Alexander Noble and Isabella Kennedy: John, baptised 30 April 1837 and Donald, baptised 5 May 1839, both in Dores. Alexander and Isabella were married in Dores on 27 January 1836.
The fact that Isabella was a widow by 1851 means that Alexander died before the introduction of statutory civil registration in 1855, so there is no death certificate to confirm the names of his parents. His age is given as 30, but adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years in the 1841 census, so he could have been any age from 30 to 34, and hence born any time between 8 June 1906 and 7 June 1811 (because the 1841 census was taken on 7 June 1841).
There are 4 surviving records of baptisms of Alexander Nobles in Inverness-shire between 1806 and 1811; there could be others whose baptism records have not survived. So the trail goes cold at this point.
There are 64 surviving records of births/baptisms of Nobles with mother's surname Stephen in Fraserburgh, so it would be very easy to jump wrongly to the conclusion that the four Noble/Stephen births in Inverness are connected to Fraserburgh, when in fact there is not a shred of evidence so far to support that.
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Have any male Noble descendants from Aberdeen or Inverness lines taken a y chromosome test at Family Tree DNA? If not, would any of you be willing? I'm a Noble descendant in the US and am trying to confirm or rule out a connection to a William Noble of Aberdeen who was captured at the Battle of Preston and sent to Virginia in 1716. My ydna doesn't match any Nobles from the Borders or Northern Ireland and I suspect may be more closely kin to Inverness/Aberdeen lines.