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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: R3GaN on Thursday 15 October 20 10:08 BST (UK)
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Hi experts,
I was hoping someone might have more luck finding some evidence for me on where my great grandparents were born and even their marriage certificate/record.
Clara BEAUCHAMP/BEECHAM and George William AUSTIN
Married January 22 1869, London, England (According to the birth certificate of their daughter however I cannot find any record of it when I have searched)
Clara BEAUCHAMP born 1842, England.
Father John.
Died 5 Nov 1874 Hill End, New South Wales, Australia
- This is all I know about her, I don't know where in England, can't find her on census data or a record of when she came to Australia. I am wondering if she went by a different name? I have searched many iterations of Beauchamp. I believe she had a brother Charles Beauchamp.
George William AUSTIN
Born 1828/1829, England
He was a caterer by trade and I believe he may have worked at the cafe Gunter's in London. Married there in 1869 and was in Sydney by 1870. I cannot find where and when he was born and haven't come across any mention of parents/siblings. He died with no family so he had a state burial (no one to fill in details on death certificate).
If anyone can uncover a record of birth or marriage that would be amazing. I would just love to solve this bump in my tree.
Thanks
:)
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If they married 1869 & she died 1874 that’s only a 5yr window
When was their daughter born?
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Looking at births from 1837 to 1848 for Clara/Clare/Clarabel with surnames vaguely resembling BEAUCHAMP on FreeBMD and GRO there are:
BEESON Clara, Mar qtr 1842 Amersham vol 6 p310, mmn MILES
(died Jun qtr 1842 Amersham vol 6 p205, age 0)
BEACHIM Clara, Jun qtr 1845 Frome vol 10 p405, mmn PENNYMAN
(probably BEACHIM Clara Frances married Dec qtr 1880 Barton Regis vol 6a p214)
BELSHAM Clara, Dec qtr 1845 St James Westminster vol 1 p77, mmn GRAVATT
(probably BELSHAM Clara married Sep qtr 1870 St Saviour vol 1d p233)
BELCHAM Clara Selina, Mar qtr 1847 Strand vol 1 p417, mmn EAST
(no further information yet found)
BIRCHAM Clara Margaretta, Sep qtr 1848 Erpingham vol 13 p104, mmn WEBB
(probably BIRCHAM Clara Margaret married Dec qtr 1879 Marylebone vol 1a p1042)
and some marriages:
Sep qtr 1856 Axbridge vol 5c p961 BEAUCHAMP Richard Williams on same page as LOTT Clara, BIRTILL Sam, SPRATT Hannah
(discounted - 1861 Census has Richard & Hannah BEACHAM, Samuel & Clara BIRTILL)
Sep qtr 1867 Clerkenwell vol 1b p991 BEAUCHAMP George Thomas on same page as BATEMAN Clara Elizabeth, CRESSWELL Charles, WAGGOT Jane
(no further information yet found, but 1871 Census has Charles and Jane CRESSWELL)
Sep qtr 1867 Windsor vol 2c p734 BEAUCHAMP Thomas on same page as WARNER Clara, CURTIS George, BUCKLAND Jane Martha
(discounted - 1861 Census has Thomas and Jane BEAUCHAMP)
So, nothing conclusive yet, but one birth and one marriage could be worth following up.
I'm off to bed - I'll have another look after the weekend if no-one's cracked it!
Philip
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Related post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=836584.msg7020141#msg7020141
Jamjar
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If they married 1869 & she died 1874 that’s only a 5yr window
When was their daughter born?
They had a son born in 1870 in Sydney who died as an infant. Their only surviving daughter was born November 1872 in Hill End, Australia. Clara (mum) died from complications from the birth of the next daughter also named Clara. Both Clara's died within a few weeks in 1874.
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If Clara was an illegitimate daughter would that explain why she appears connected to the Beauchamp's of Isleworth, Middlesex but not recorded?
Her father is listed as 'John' which could be John BEAUCHAMP (d.1870) (The father of the family I've been trying to connect her to) or his son John BEAUCHAMP (d.1885) or perhaps she is the daughter of one of the elder daughters (Isabella BEAUCHAMP)
Any suggestions as to how I could follow this path?
I have obtained John's #1 will and it doesn't make any illusions to a daughter or granddaughter. I don't seem to be able to access John #2s will though he also moved to Sydney and he would have been in Sydney for the time she was in NSW.
I've looked a bit at workhouses to see if Isabella was listed.
I'm not sure what else I can look at to find Clara BEAUCHAMP's birth or marriage. Any suggestions?
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This birth certificate would be useful for you. It will record age, birthplace for parents....and marriage.
NSW BDM birth
2738/1870 AUSTIN George B L parents George W / Clare @ Sydney
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I bought the death certificate for baby George but it just confirmed the parents names and that they were in Sydney.I could look into getting more they're just annoyingly expensive but it might be my only solution.
From the other thread linked at #3
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One year on and I still cannot solve this mystery.
If anyone can solve it, I would be really grateful.
I'm looking for any record of Clara Beauchamp prior to 1870. I believe she was born in 1842 in England.
Her father is listed as John.
She sent her child to live with Charles Beauchamp, of Sion Park Isleworth and he referred to this child as his niece in his will. However, I cannot find evidence to connect her to this family as a daughter/sister.
The only other names that may be relevant in some way, is their first son had the middle name Beauchamp Lindsay. Their surviving daughter was Florence Emily.
What I have learned since last year:
I don't believe Clara and George ever actually married - both children's certificates had different dates listed in 1869 and I cannot locate a marriage certificate. Given their age (30 and 40 years old) when they went to Australia, they possibly left existing families/marriages.
I do now know that Clara Beauchamp and George William Austin came to Australia as full paying steerage ticket holders, listed as Clara and George Austin. They sailed aboard "Planet", departing London on January 21 1870 and arrived in Brisbane May 2 1870. The appear to have land titles there that they possibly just collected and sold on as there is a record of sale.
On 29 October 1870 a son, George Beauchamp Lindsay Austin was born to Clara and George at 120
Phillips Street Sydney. Obviously conceived on the journey, meaning they didn't stay in Brisbane very long. Baby George didn't survive.
They later moved to Hill End, NSW and Clara died in 1874 from complications from child birth.
George William Austin I have nothing except he was born in Middlesex, England. He was a caterer and ran a restaurant in Hill End and a pub in Sydney briefly.
If anyone is up for the challenge, I'd be super grateful.
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Which of these records do you have?
VIC BDM
7547/1898 AUSTIN Flor Emily marr. STEPHENSON, Saml Scott
VIC BDM death
11725/1914 BEAUCHAMP Marian parents Eleanor PALTRIDGE / Elliott Richard
died S Yarra age 80
10849/1918 BEAUCHAMP Chas parents Unknown / Unknown
died S Yarra age 86
20881/1957 STEPHENSON Florence Emily parents Unknown / Unknown
died Altona age 83
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Which do I have transcripts for or which do I know?
I have the transcript of Samuel and Florences wedding and Florence's birth certificate.
I have the will of Charles Beauchamp but not any other of his or Marian's certificates.
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Can you please list all the information on this document -
VIC BDM
7547/1898 AUSTIN Flor Emily marr. STEPHENSON, Saml Scott
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Samuel Scott Stephenson
bachelor
Age: 26
Born: Surrey, England (he wasn't born in England, this is unusual but maybe confused Brighton Vic with Brighton uK?)
Occupation: Gardener
Lives: 136 Anderson St, South Yarra
Parents: Edward Stephenson, Caroline Scott
Fathers position: Gardener
Florence Emily Austin
spinster
Age: 26
Born: Hill End, New South Wales
Living: 21 Alexander St, South Yarra
Parents: George Austin
Clara Beauchamp
Fathers position: Contractor
Married by Albert James Abbott at 422 Queen St Melbourne
5th of December 1989
Witnesses: John Henry Stephenson
John Charles McCall
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Trove .........address 21 Alexander St finds Brighton Villa ..... boarders
Where and how do you locate Florence Emily AUSTIN between leaving Hill End 1875, and her marrying in Melbourne 1898?
The death certificate for Florence Emily STEPHENSON would record her years in Victoria...and other states.
Where and how do you locate Charles BEAUCHAMP between mid 1870s in Queensland, and 1887, newspaper notice for death of his nephew John BEAUCHAMP in Melbourne?
The death certificate for Charles BEAUCHAMP, died 1918, would record years in Victoria. I suspect that the death certificate for his wife Marian, died 1914, might be better for this purpose because her husband is alive to be a likely informant.
Charles BEAUCHAMP died Melbourne 1918, and his death on VIC Index does not record his parents names. His headstone records his birth date and place, and date of arrival in Melbourne and name of ship.
When he dies there is no one around to give good information for his death certificate?......but he gets such an informative headstone?
I suppose source of that information might be Florence Emily STEPHENSON nee AUSTIN, which would suggest that she has knowledge of her BEAUCHAMP ancestry.
Would that seem to be at odds with the death index entry for Florence Emily STEPHENSON, where her family would be the informants and they cannot name her parents?
Sydney Morning Herald 15 Apr 1885 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13579970?
BEAUCHAMP.-John BEAUCHAMP, oven builder, Sydney, eldest son of the late John BEAUCHAMP, Esq., of Sion Park, Isleworth, Middlesex, England, who was killed suddenly by being accidentally run over on Friday, April 10, 1885, aged 64 years. Widower.
NSW BDM death
867/1885 BEAUCHAMP John age 64 years died Sydney
Florence Emily AUSTIN has uncle Charles BEAUCHAMP. Florence also has uncle John BEAUCHAMP in Sydney at the time of her mother Clara's death.
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On your Ancestry tree you seem to say that George William AUSTIN, son of Thomas and Elizabeth AUSTIN married GILLIMORE in 1838.
He was born in 1829 /1830 so would be 8 years old.
It seems more likely he married Mary Ann JAMES in 1854 in Chelsea 1a/241
You will see a likely couple on 1861 census with a child, Elizabeth J. aged 6 years.
He was born in Middlesex and his wife in Wales.
His occupation is private attendant.
In 1851 Mary Ann JAMES was servant in the home of Sydney Morgan in Chelsea. Born Newton Monmouthshire, Wales.
I have not found any members of this AUSTIN family in 1871.
The usual impediment to the marriage of a couple (such as George William and Clara Beauchamp) is that one or the other is still married.
Sue
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On your Ancestry tree you seem to say that George William AUSTIN, son of Thomas and Elizabeth AUSTIN married GILLIMORE in 1838.
He was born in 1829 /1830 so would be 8 years old.
It seems more likely he married Mary Ann JAMES in 1854 in Chelsea 1a/241
You will see a likely couple on 1861 census with a child, Elizabeth J. aged 6 years.
He was born in Middlesex and his wife in Wales.
His occupation is private attendant.
In 1851 Mary Ann JAMES was servant in the home of Sydney Morgan in Chelsea. Born Newton Monmouthshire, Wales.
I have not found any members of this AUSTIN family in 1871.
The usual impediment to the marriage of a couple (such as George William and Clara Beauchamp) is that one or the other is still married.
Sue
Hi Sue,
Thanks. I meant to delete that, I'm not sure what i've done there :) In my written documents I had also come to the conclusion of Mary Ann James and them having a daughter Elizabeth. It looks as if Elizabeth marries in 1888 and lists her father as 'deceased' and she dies herself two years later.
I think given the secretive nature of them, George has maybe left Mary Ann and Elizabeth behind and fled with Clara.
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Trove .........address 21 Alexander St finds Brighton Villa ..... boarders
Where and how do you locate Florence Emily AUSTIN between leaving Hill End 1875, and her marrying in Melbourne 1898?
The death certificate for Florence Emily STEPHENSON would record her years in Victoria...and other states.
Where and how do you locate Charles BEAUCHAMP between mid 1870s in Queensland, and 1887, newspaper notice for death of his nephew John BEAUCHAMP in Melbourne?
The death certificate for Charles BEAUCHAMP, died 1918, would record years in Victoria. I suspect that the death certificate for his wife Marian, died 1914, might be better for this purpose because her husband is alive to be a likely informant.
Charles BEAUCHAMP died Melbourne 1918, and his death on VIC Index does not record his parents names. His headstone records his birth date and place, and date of arrival in Melbourne and name of ship.
When he dies there is no one around to give good information for his death certificate?......but he gets such an informative headstone?
I suppose source of that information might be Florence Emily STEPHENSON nee AUSTIN, which would suggest that she has knowledge of her BEAUCHAMP ancestry.
Would that seem to be at odds with the death index entry for Florence Emily STEPHENSON, where her family would be the informants and they cannot name her parents?
Sydney Morning Herald 15 Apr 1885 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13579970?
BEAUCHAMP.-John BEAUCHAMP, oven builder, Sydney, eldest son of the late John BEAUCHAMP, Esq., of Sion Park, Isleworth, Middlesex, England, who was killed suddenly by being accidentally run over on Friday, April 10, 1885, aged 64 years. Widower.
NSW BDM death
867/1885 BEAUCHAMP John age 64 years died Sydney
Florence Emily AUSTIN has uncle Charles BEAUCHAMP. Florence also has uncle John BEAUCHAMP in Sydney at the time of her mother Clara's death.
Thanks for writing.
I haven't been able to locate Florence, she was pulled out of school in Hill End in 1875 and that's the last I can find of her. I have tried to locate her on immigration docs perhaps taking a ship from Sydney to Melbourne but have had no luck.
I'm not sure if she went to Melbourne as a young child or her and George lived together. Like you said, there was also Beauchamps in Sydney that she may have connected with.
I had found a record of a George Austin aboard the “Corea” from Sydney to Melbourne on 16 November 1878. Not sure if it is him. No record of Florence. He then turns up Sydney in 1880 and 1884 after which point I believe he was living and working in Sydney.
Charles was in Melbourne by 1875 as I can find him in the Sand Directory but I'm not too sure of the details. He has a few court cases he was attached to.
Weirdly in 1903 when George W dies in Sydney he has an inquest into his death and is given a pauper's burial. You would question why Florence wasn't named in a will or used as an informant on his death certificate.
Maybe its worth chasing up Florence and Marion's death certificates to see what they say. Florence's seems to be light on for details.
Thanks
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Thanks for writing.
I haven't been able to locate Florence, she was pulled out of school in Hill End in 1875 and that's the last I can find of her. I have tried to locate her on immigration docs perhaps taking a ship from Sydney to Melbourne but have had no luck.
I'm not sure if she went to Melbourne as a young child or her and George lived together. Like you said, there was also Beauchamps in Sydney that she may have connected with.
Probably Florence in 1887
Mis F BEAUCHAMP at the Park Place Ladies College South Yarra.
Florence receives 2 prizes. Senior year.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/7944936
The school did accept boarders. Perhaps she was one.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139140067
Sue
EDIT
I just realised I have posted about a girl called F. BEAUCHAMP, not about Florence AUSTIN which makes the information invalid.
However, I will strike it through BUT I do note in her marriage certificate, Florence marries in the name of AUSTIN, and correctly names her father, HOWEVER, she states he is a contractor.
He was not , of course.
It was her uncle Charles BEAUCHAMP who was the contractor.
She seems to see Charles as a father figure, I think.
It may be worth considering she used the BEAUCHAMP name.
Sue
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Are you saying that you have this death certificate, and the Will of this George W AUSTIN?
NSW BDM death
5516/1903 AUSTIN George W @ Burwood
Can you please list all the information on this death record.
What information do you see on the Will.......date it is written, executors, witnesses, beneficiaries, estate....everything please.
Your reply #5....
Who is John #1? Who is John #2? Whoever's Will you have, can you give the relevant details.....eg. date it is written, executors, witnesses, beneficiaries, estate....everything please.
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When John Thomas BEAUCHAMP died at home of his uncle, Charles BEAUCHAMP, 19 April 1887, Melbourne, the are two death notices on the 27th April. Notices are in The Herald and The Argus.
Also in this publication, 17 May 1887 p79 -
The Australasian Sketcher with Pen and Pencil (Melbourne, Vic. : 1873 - 1889)
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It is an interesting suggestion though. She may have gone by Beauchamp as a child, its something I will look into. There is a chance Florence went to live with them as early as 3 years old, so I think they would very much be parental figures to her.
At the time I believe George was working as a some form of mobile caterer, at the races and the cricket ground. He seemed to apply for contracts for these events, so that may be where the 'contractor' came from - maybe a stretch.
Probably Florence in 1887
Mis F BEAUCHAMP at the Park Place Ladies College South Yarra.
Florence receives 2 prizes. Senior year.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/7944936
The school did accept boarders. Perhaps she was one.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139140067
Sue
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Hi,
I haven't got George's Will as I don't believe there was one.
From the inquest details, it seems he had no body to inform and so I figured nothing would be filled in on his death certificate, so I have't bothered getting it.
Perhaps I should?
The Johns I spoke of were Charles older brother John, who died in Sydney in 1885 and their father John Beauchamp. John Jr I haven't located a will for but there is an inquest online about his accidental death. John Senior I have the will and testament for but it's really hard to read. There is no mention of Clara or even the elder children.
Are you saying that you have this death certificate, and the Will of this George W AUSTIN?
NSW BDM death
5516/1903 AUSTIN George W @ Burwood
Can you please list all the information on this death record.
What information do you see on the Will.......date it is written, executors, witnesses, beneficiaries, estate....everything please.
Your reply #5....
Who is John #1? Who is John #2? Whoever's Will you have, can you give the relevant details.....eg. date it is written, executors, witnesses, beneficiaries, estate....everything please.
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I am having trouble using the information you are giving.
Your reply #16
"Weirdly in 1903 when George W dies in Sydney he has an inquest into his death and is given a pauper's burial. You would question why Florence wasn't named in a will or used as an informant on his death certificate."
I read this to mean that you have this death certificate and can see the name of the informant. The informant is not Florence.
At this stage I would not suggest that you need to get this death certificate. But it could have enough information to identify him...marriage details, name of children, years in the colony, place of birth.
You have a Will, and Florence's name does not appear in such document.
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Sorry, it's hard to remember what i've said sometimes.
The George I believe is him died intestate. No will. I can't put my finger on the inquest details but it made it seem as though he had nothing to his name and no next of kin they were aware of. The death was ruled heart failure. He had about 8 pound to his name. He was buried in Rookwood Cemetery in what is just a general grave.
I find this unusual given he had a daughter and you would expect he would then at least have made a will to name her.
I haven't bought his death certificate because I figured, if he left no will, they would have had no information to fill in.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX52695&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,george%20austin&offset=130
I am having trouble using the information you are giving.
Your reply #16
"Weirdly in 1903 when George W dies in Sydney he has an inquest into his death and is given a pauper's burial. You would question why Florence wasn't named in a will or used as an informant on his death certificate."
I read this to mean that you have this death certificate and can see the name of the informant. The informant is not Florence.
At this stage I would not suggest that you need to get this death certificate. But it could have enough information to identify him...marriage details, name of children, years in the colony, place of birth.
You have a Will, and Florence's name does not appear in such document.
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. He seemed to apply for contracts for these events, so that may be where the 'contractor' came from - maybe a stretch.
No.
I cannot agree with you here.
The term contractor was clearly limited to those in the building business.
It would not be applied to the occupation of George W AUSTIN at all.
I am convinced she has wrongly attributed to him the occupation of Charles BEAUCHAMP who is described countless times in records as a contractor.
There was at least some degree of estrangement and she was unfamiliar with the finer points of her true parental details
Sue
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Yes, I was just clutching at straws as it is just strange that she would choose to make small adjustments like that when she knew a lot of facts.
It seems as though she may have become quite estranged with her father. She learned about the Beauchamp's line through her guardians, and George became just a name.
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You have two birth certificates that record marriage details for parents. Can you please list all the information on each of these certificates.
From the marriage certificate AUSTIN-STEPHENSON, Melbourne, 1898 - Witnesses: John Henry STEPHENSON and John Charles McCALL
Electoral Roll
1903 McCOLL John Charles 23 Edinburgh St Rich. porter
McCOLL Elizabeth 23 Edinburgh St Rich.
1906 McCOLL John Charles 23 Edinburgh St Rich. porter
McCOLL Elizabeth Ann 23 Edinburgh St Rich.
McCOLL John Charles 23 Edinburgh St Rich. railway employee
McCOLL Rose 23 Edinburgh St Rich. whiteworker
1908 McCOLL John Charles 347 Dorcas St St Melbourne. porter
McCOLL Violet Annie 347 Dorcas St St Melbourne. porter
1912 McCALL Violet Annie 347 Dorcas St South Melbourne machinist
1913 McCALL Violet Annie 347 Dorcas St South Melbourne machinist
1914 McCALL Violet Annie 347 Dorcas St South Melbourne machinist
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The two listings for marriage dates I have come from the kids birth certificates.
On the birth certificate of their son
GEORGE LINDSAY BEAUCHAMP AUSTIN REF 1870/2738
Date of marriage:December 1869
Place of marriage:Middlesex, England
On the birth certificate of
Florence EMILY AUSTIN
DATE of marriage: 22 JAN 1869
Place of marriage: London England REF 1873/18811
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If people are fabricating a piece of information, and information that they will need to repeat, they do not pick a date out of the air. It is human nature to use a date that has relevance to them.
For birth of baby George B L AUSTIN, 29 Oct 1870, father George William AUSTIN is the informant. Father George has come from England where birth certificates record limited information.
Unexpectably he has to give a marriage date, and Dec 1869 suits the purpose.
The purpose is to describe a child born to a mother who is not pregnant at marriage, so Dec 1869 suits.
Next time that George William AUSTIN registers a birth he is prepared, he has thought about a date...a day and month that he will have reason to remember. The year is not so important. It just needs to suit the purpose I have described.
The 22nd of January means something to George, and also to wife Clara? The B/D/M of someone?
Having given this line of thought, I notice that they departed London for Brisbane on 21 January 1870, which date would be recently significant to both George and Clara, even if out by one day.
But keep it in mind as a possibility in your research.
Can you expand on this .....what are seeing, and where?
"...The appear to have land titles there that they possibly just collected and sold on as there is a record of sale."
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On QLD archives, it looks as though Clara and George both had land orders - George had one by himself and one with Clara. The scheme was for inducing immigrants to settle in Queensland.
AUSTIN, George, Number: 4765, Year: 1870, Item: 18765
AUSTIN, Clara, Number: 4766, Year: 1870, Item: 18765
AUSTIN, George, Number: 4766, Year: 1870, Item: 18765
https://www.data.qld.gov.au/dataset/land-orders-1861-to-1874/resource/030e30af-0c04-427b-a2a1-74799c1f9798
I found a record of them both being sold. Can't remember where I found that.
Got the impression they went to Brisbane to claim it their allocated land, and sell it on immediately and probably use the money to go to Sydney.