RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: shauniibd on Tuesday 06 October 20 09:06 BST (UK)
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I am a relatively new and passionate researcher of my family tree, and have been working on my Irish lines, with surprising success. I have now encountered a problem - I was given anecdotal info of my great-great maternal grandparents family (BOYLAN of Clontarf, Dublin) by my own grandmother, which I was mostly able to evidence with BMD records, and the 1911 census.
However, having found well documented birth records of her sisters (Annie Boylan b. 1906, Margaret "madge" Christina Boylan b. 1908, Mary Catherine Boylan b. 1909 and Eileen Boylan b. 1910), I cannot find any record of my grandmother's birth - who I knew to be Jean Boylan b. 1928. This name is used on her marriage cert.
As you can see, she was born 18 years after her youngest sister, and though not impossible, this info, plus talk in my family of a secret, I am wondering whether Jean Boylan was not born into this family, and was maybe adopted.
Herein lies my problem. I am at a total loss where to go next - how to investigate a possible adoption/orphan in 1928 (before compulsory adoption records) with only the name "Jean" and a full D.O.B.
Does anyone have any advice at all on tracing a birth record with such little info, or what I can do next? I would like to be able to give my grandmother the answers to questions she has always wanted to ask, but never did.
Thank you!
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Hi Shaun,
Welcome to RootsChat - and great that you have found us.
We have a policy on RootsChat to not give the names of living people, so the replies that you get may be in general terms if there is a risk that there could be living people involved.
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So a big welcome again,
Trystan
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Welcome to rootschat.. I think the first thing to check is whether she could be birth child of an elder sister or other relative .
From the way you worded it i assumed Jean B is deceased
If you give full birth date there are people here who are good at finding births
In searches if it's a single mother only one surname is shown .
Also was she likely to have been baptized ..? In which case a church record may hold more details.
Have any of her descendants done DNA tests?
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
You've likely used Irish Genealogy site to view births of your grandmother's sibling (born 1906-1910) but births less than 100 years old will not be shown on that site.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
In 1911 mother Margaret Boylan is listed as age 30 so possible to have a child born 1928. It also says she was born in Co wicklow- perhaps your grandmother was born there?
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/St__James_s_Avenue/13570/
Eileen's birth (1910) shows mother's maiden name as Henderson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01540/1623752.pdf
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This is a death for Patrick Boylan, 14 St James Avenue which would link to the 1911 census if I have the right family.
He died July 1927.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1927/04972/4354215.pdf
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Wow, thank you all so much for such speedy replies, and thanks for the lovely welcome!
Yes, Jean B (my great grandmother - may have misworded in my original post) is deceased - died 25/11/2002 in England. My initial thoughts were that she was perhaps the child of a sibling/relative, and then raised by Patrick Joseph Boylan and Margaret Emily (née Henderson). I looked into the sisters (as listed) but found nothing from that search.
I wasn't sure whether it was common practice to post full DOBs here - so didn't include it initially, but would be fantastic if anyone could help with that info - Jean B's DOB is 25/8/1928, to our knowledge.
I think it is likely she was baptised - she was religious throughout her life (RC) but then again, I wasn't sure whether any possibly 'difficult' context of her birth would have affected/prevented this without her knowing - I am currently trying to find out whether any family members know for certain that she had a baptism cert.
That's such a great point!! I have been mostly using Irish Genealogy in my search. Does anyone know of alternative resource bases for births post 1920, in Ireland?
And yes, the Boylan family in question lived at 14 St James Ave. for many years (you got there far quicker than I did! ;D) I hadn't managed to find record of Patrick B's, so thank you so much! His occupation also correlates to everything else I have found - listed as a clerk/shop assistant many times.
Family tree searching is a rollercoaster of progress isn't it! So grateful for you all!
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Birth indexes to 1958 are here https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347
Do you kniw who raised her in Ireland?
Does she give a father’s name on her marriage?
Was she the only family member to emigrate to England?
As Patrick died July 1927, he couldn’t be Jean’s father but Margaret would be young enough and also her daughters.
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My grandmother told me about her mother's 'parents' - Patrick and Margaret Boylan, so I assumed they raised her - that is until we just discovered that Patrick died the year before Jean's birth. My grandmother said that she met/knew Margaret in her childhood and remembers her passing away (which I found record of: 6/10/1956), and described Patrick as her grandfather but that 'he had died before she was born'.
I have only been able to view the marriage index on Family Search, which only shows month & year, so I don't know who her father was recorded as on the cert. This is the marriage of Jean Boylan and Colm (Columbus) Gaynor, July 1946, N. Dublin.
I am fairly certain she was the only family member to emigrate (I have personal/anecdotal evidence that the other Boylan sisters lived and died in Dublin). One of the sisters - Mary Catherine Boylan - was unknown by my grandmother, and so she may have continued to live and emigrate, but I suspect she may have died as a child but haven't been able to evidence this...unless she is part of this story, and became estranged for one reason or another...
I've just searched the index you suggested for any "Jean"s born in 1928, and found nothing useful - I thought perhaps if Margaret went on to have another child after her husband's death/one of the sisters had had her, that it would have flagged something up.
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Jane is the more common form of the name in Ireland than Jean or perhaps her birth was registered originally with another Christian name or even without a name having been chosen.
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Welcome.
Even if you had all the paper evidence by your writings and family gossip it sounds very much like she was the daughter of the what were thought if as one of her siblings.
This practice continued to be rife, especially in Ireland and as of the late eighties we were at a 25th wedding anniversary party of an Irish family but we knew that the person celebrating their anniversary was not the Sister of my Wife’s friend but the daughter she had had five years before her marriage. All the family were in on the deception and on my Wife’s friends birth cert what were her Grandparents were listed as Parents.
There again sometimes family stories are incorrect, my Wife always thought that one of her Great Grandparents was from Roscommon in Ireland but 10 years of family searching the nearest we have is the Great Grandmother (born Manchester to Mancunian parents) was married to an Irish guy who died and she married my Wife’s Great Grandfather a few months later.
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Just for the record
Eileen Boylan’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1937/08909/5222272.pdf
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Margaret’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08889/5215054.pdf
Who witnessed Jean’s marriage in Dublin? Sorry, just read that you only have it from thr indexes.
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I think it is likely she was baptised - she was religious throughout her life (RC) but then again, I wasn't sure whether any possibly 'difficult' context of her birth would have affected/prevented this without her knowing - I am currently trying to find out whether any family members know for certain that she had a baptism cert.
You could try contacting the church to check for a baptism record. Responses vary but you never know. Both Margaret and Eileen married at St Agatha’s.
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Jane is the more common form of the name in Ireland than Jean or perhaps her birth was registered originally with another Christian name or even without a name having been chosen.
This did cross my mind - whether Jane/Jean could have been used interchangeably, or could have caused confusion when registering i.e. could have been registered Jane although the parents chose the name Jean (I've heard many tales of new fathers wondering off to register their children and spelling names wrong and all sorts! ;D) This didn't seem to bring anything up at my initial search, but something I should definitely revisit with fresh eyes.
Even if you had all the paper evidence by your writings and family gossip it sounds very much like she was the daughter of the what were thought if as one of her siblings.
I'm glad you agree with my hunch! Having discovered that her assumed 'father' passed well before her birth, thanks to @heywood, this seems even more likely. I also remember Jean to be an avid Watford City Football Club fan (UK) and it seemed no-one knew why our typical elderly Irish relative was so passionate about the club. So I went out on a limb and even checked Watford, and Hertfordshire more generally for any "Jean"s born 1928, but nothing.
Margaret’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08889/5215054.pdf
Ah! I found Eileen's marriage cert but not Margaret's! Yes it definitely seems that St. Agatha's could have been the family church, as we know at least two of the sisters married there.
Annie married a Joe Herron, but I don't know when. I wonder if they were married there, too.
You could try contacting the church to check for a baptism record. Responses vary but you never know. Both Margaret and Eileen married at St Agatha’s.
I have read of people contacting churches but was unsure if inquiries like this are usual practise/is well received from churches...but if it is a "done" thing, then I don't suppose there's much harm in a polite request!
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If Jean is the child of one of the girls, you have names, an address and and Jean’s date of birth.
As you say, a polite request with some explanation, might give a result. I hope so.
If this is the correct church, there is an email address and a notice about Family History.
http://www.stagathasparish.ie/
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One of the sisters - Mary Catherine Boylan - was unknown by my grandmother, and so she may have continued to live and emigrate, but I suspect she may have died as a child but haven't been able to evidence this...unless she is part of this story, and became estranged for one reason or another...
Do you know Mary Catherine’s date of birth?
Could she have married?
Patrick Thomas Devine
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec, 1934
Registration District: Dublin North, Ireland
Volume: 2
Page Number: 328
FHL Film Number: 101577
Mary Boylan
her burial 2002 Mary Boylan Divine has middle name Catherine born 5th August 1909
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157368145/mary-catherine-devine
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98609459/patrick-thomas-devine
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Mary Catherine Boylan born 5 Aug.1909 but wrong parents-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01603/1643888.pdf
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I wondered if Catherine was a witness to Eileen’s marriage.
Here it is again
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1937/08909/5222272.pdf
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Think the witness at eileen's marriage could be Anne Boylan.
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That was my second thought :) but wanted confirmation.
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I was looking for a Northern Ireland adoption or birth in 1926, we did not know which and birth records in Northern Ireland do not show as less than 100 years ago, but is different for Ireland.
I phoned up GRONI, you could phone the Irish equivalent.
The person I was looking for was adopted officially in 1947 (when they were almost 21). Nothing was known of their adopted family by the person I was doing this for. Also, the adoptive father had already died, so that name is not on the certificate from the adoption register.
You have their exact date of birth, so just explain what you know and see what they can suggest.
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If she referred to Patrick (although deceased at the time) and Margaret as her parents, it seems likely that her birth was in the same family.
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Do you know Mary Catherine’s date of birth?
Could she have married?
Mary Catherine's date of birth was 1/10/1909.
Also, in yesterday's digging I managed to find a marriage cert. that seems to definitely be her - married John Maxwell on 29/6/1936 at Church of St. Agatha. Margaret Boylan (sister/mother) was a witness.
I also found record of her death - 12/5/1966 in Donnycarney, of carcinoma of the bladder.
Think the witness at eileen's marriage could be Anne Boylan.
Yes, that's how I interpreted it, after a short time wondering if it said Aine (the lovely cursive handwriting can sometimes be a challenge!)
I phoned up GRONI, you could phone the Irish equivalent.
You have their exact date of birth, so just explain what you know and see what they can suggest.
Interesting! I will definitely look into what the equivalent is!
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Also, in yesterday's digging I managed to find a marriage cert. that seems to definitely be her - married John Maxwell on 29/6/1936 at Church of St. Agatha. Margaret Boylan (sister/mother) was a witness.
I also found record of her death - 12/5/1966 in Donnycarney, of carcinoma of the bladder.
Married 27th June 1936.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08924/5227753.pdf
Her death on 12th March.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1966/04232/4084245.pdf
KG
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Ugh, thank you so much! I had interpreted the 7 as a 9 :-X
and yes, definitely March, that was a silly typing error on my part!
To reiterate, Mary Catherine Boylan:
b. 1/10/1909
m. 27/6/1936
d. 12/3/1966
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I phoned up GRONI, you could phone the Irish equivalent.
You have their exact date of birth, so just explain what you know and see what they can suggest.
Interesting! I will definitely look into what the equivalent is!
GRO Roscommon and Dublin.
Note the Covid-19 information.
https://www.gov.ie/en/service/124a70-apply-for-certificates/
https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation-information/55ccbe-general-register-office-gro-research-facility/#
KG
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It was very common for children in dublin to be known by their middle name in those days. I had an aunt named philomena teresa always known as tessie so is it possible that Jean might have been a middle name? FamilySearch lists a margaret boylan born dublin north + mother boylan in the jul-sep qtr 1928, vol2 p359 in GRO.