RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: gnorman on Friday 25 September 20 23:11 BST (UK)
-
Hi everyone, thanks to some great help from other Rootschatters I have today recieved a death certificate for my relative, Thomas Logan. The certificate reads;
1870, St George's, Manchester. 18th April 1870, Thomas Logan of 8 Williamson Street, male, aged 44 years, tailor. Cause of death - Pulminary desease. Informant Bridget Logan, present at death & of 8 Williamson Street.
I have no idea who Bridget is or how they are related. Thomas' wife was Julia Logan.
Does anyone know where electors rolls would be held for this street - it doesnt seem to exist anymore or can anyone help with who Bridget may have been? Or is the a way of searching by address on the national census for 1871?
Many thanks, Luke
-
I have no idea who Bridget is or how they are related. Thomas' wife was Julia Logan.
So Bridget could be Thomas's unmarried sister or his sister in law if she married his brother.
Have you looked for her on the 1871 census?
-
1861 RG9/2933 FOLIO 95 PAGE 31 Manchester
Thomas 50 born Ireland Tailor D of B circa 1811
Julia 44 Ireland
Edward 14 Ireland
Onora 12
Margare t7
Ellen 4
Ann 2 all siblings from Onora onwards born Manchester
IF this is your Thomas he is way out on his age at death,
Julia appears to be on her own shown as "W" on 1871 age 60 but once again her age is out
Louisa Maud
-
In 1851 - Thomas is 29 & wife is shown as Judith 28
HO107 Piece 2226 Folio 73 Page 15
Any relationship shown for Bridget on the death cert?
Depends what you know about Thomas to link him to Bridget?
-
1871 census 33 Ashton (St.) Manchester
William Cooke Head 27 Iron Works Lab born Manchester
Ann wife 25 Cotton Weaver born Manchester
Julia Logan 60 widow boarder house keeper born Ireland
Daughter Ann Logan married William Cooke 17 November 1872 father Thomas Logan Tailor.
The Ann age 1 in 1851 the Ann age 2 in 1861 possibly daughter of Patsy
-
Deleted, just having a brain snap.
-
Julia does not appear on the 1881 census.
There is no Julia Logan death or marriage in Manchester after 1871 so did she return to Ireland?
Could Bridget have travelled over from Ireland to visit the family hence her address being the same as theirs?
Without knowing more about Thomas it's impossible to say
-
1861 and 1871 Manchester
Michael Logan 30 40
Bridget 26 36
Mary ? 14
William 11
Matthew 3
Parents born Ireland and children Manchester
Just trying to find the correct Bridget
Wonder what happened t all the Logan children on previous census
Louisa Maud
-
Thank you all for your help.
Thomas' wife Julia died in Heywood in 1877. It does not say on the death certificate what relation Bridget was.
I cant find any other Bridget other than the one you mentioned Louisa Maud but its hard to confirm anything with so little info on the death cert.
I'm going to try to see if I can look at the electors roll to see if Julia is also at the address - if nothing else to prove to myself that this is the correct Thomas Logan (though i cant see any other Thomas Logans who are Tailors.
Thans everyone, Luke
-
Did anyone find who lived at that in 1871, I haven't got any CD's for Manchester, only London
LM
-
Did anyone find who lived at that in 1871, I haven't got any CD's for Manchester, only London
LM
1871 4047/160/37
John Kenny 36 Yrs
Mary Kenny 33 yrs
Mary Kenny 10 Yrs
Thomas Kenny 1 yr
Mary Brady 18 Yrs
No help there :-\
-
No, so near yet so far as that was the address, ah well.
LM
-
Have a rate book from 1869
Thos Logan at 8 Williamson Street
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6P5V-CH
-
Another Bridget
1871 census, Manchester
piece 4053 folio 25 page 16
piece 4053 folio 16 page 25
9 Parker Street
Bridget Logan Head Widow 30 Tailoress, born Ireland Galway
2 lodgers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDXM-QLH
Lozan on ancestry
Before Parker Street is King Street, and before that is Williamson Street, so literally just round the corner in St George, ED 32.
-
Before Parker Street is King Street, and before that is Williamson Street, so literally just round the corner in St George, ED 32.
1871 seems to be the first year that Bridget Logan is at Parker Street in the rate books
Right down the bottom, at no. 9
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6D9S-C1H
May or may not be the right Bridget!
Williamson Street is a few pages on
And here is Williamson in 1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6DS9-PZ6
-
Is there an address for Bridget on that death certificate or is it just Thomas’ address.
I see she is a Tailoress and a widow. She might be a relative or a woman called upon when someone is dying/has died.
-
1871 census
Bridget Logan Head Widow 30 Tailoress, born Ireland Galway
2 lodgers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDXM-QLH
Those lodgers are Catherine Avarty, 28, and Patrick Avarty, 2
There is a marriage in Manchester in 1874
Thomas Kelly and Bridget Logan / Bridget Haverty
Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended (Lancashire BMD)
Could that be the same Bridget? :-\ Really don't know.
-
On the other hand, 1875 rate book has a Bridget Logan in King Street (the one already mentioned)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6135-GZ
Enough of this Bridget Logan!
-
I think 8 Williamson St on the 1871 is this one:
Piece:4053/Folio 13/Page 20
Heywood may have spotted Williams Street??
Maureen
-
Another Bridget
1871 census, Manchester
piece 4053 folio 25 page 16
I don't know if Maureen, or anyone, spotted my deliberate error
It is actually
piece 4053 folio 16 page 25
Wrong way round!
I will now correct it
Yes, Williamson Street is just a few census pages before, as I said.
John Ford, 35, a Hawker from County Galway there at 8
John
-
In that enumeration district, number 32 in St George sub-dist, according to ancestry
784 persons
316 born in Ireland, a lot (but not all) have counties.
87 born in Co. Galway
Among Irish born heads it is 31/113 for Galway
Probably doesn't mean much, other than that the kindly enumerator did not cull the extra info :)
-
:) :) John-I didn't notice your error.
I was too busy hoping that I had my folios and pages in the correct order.
Maureen
-
I was too busy hoping that I had my folios and pages in the correct order.
;D
I was always a stickler for giving them, now I don't always bother, they are usually on the FamilySearch link, but not for the 1871 census.
I wondered about the origins of this query and have discovered that I apparently suggested the death certificate in question
Do you think I should go for Jonw65's suggestion - 'There's a death of another Thomas in 1870
June 1870 Manchester 8d 194, Logan, Thomas, age 44'
Now to read that thread again, to find out what it's all about! Memory not as good as it was...
John
-
Those lodgers are Catherine Avarty, 28, and Patrick Avarty, 2
Both born Co Galway
Could then this be the birth of Patrick? :-\
Patt, mother Catherine Haverty
born 11 May 1868
Certificate
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03426/2257246.pdf
Link to partial transcript on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL34-VXL6
-
The district for Patt Haverty's birth was Mount Bellew
Place Gurteen..?
Now, back to
There is a marriage in Manchester in 1874
Thomas Kelly and Bridget Logan / Bridget Haverty
Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended (Lancashire BMD)
I do find that a bit of a coincidence, and the 1871 census does say that Bridget Logan in Parker Street, Manchester, was a widow.
After a bit of a struggle, a possible marriage in Ireland?
9 August 1862
Thomas Loghan + Bridget Haverty
Witnesses Timothy Haverty, Catherine Haverty.
Bridget transcribed as Baverty
Marriage was at Moylough in Galway, alternative parish name Mountbellew :)
(Info from findmypast)
Image here
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632069#page/26/mode/1up
can anyone help with who Bridget may have been?
Are there any thoughts from Luke on the Bridget (or Bridgets!) uncovered today?
Could Thomas (Loghan) in Mountbellew have been a relation of Thomas the tailor in Manchester? :-\
-
I mentioned Bridget Logan being listed in the rate book at King Street in 1875, though there was a a possible marriage to James Kelly in '74
Here she is, at number 17
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6135-GZ
Now in 1876, who do you think is listed at 17 King St? James Kelly
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65QD-22
Looks like they just were a bit behind in updating things.
So hopefully we can follow Bridget Logan nee Haverty from at least 1871 in Parker Street through to being in King Street and then marrying James Kelly.
And likely back to that marriage in Galway in 1862?
Then to Manchester and to 8 Williamson Street?
Could Thomas (Loghan) in Mountbellew have been a relation of Thomas the tailor in Manchester?
They might of course be the same person? :-\
Bridget the informant being his wife. Who then moves but a short distance to Parker St, where she is joined by her relative (sister?) Catherine Haverty.
Thomas would have been a bit older than Bridget, but so what?
That the two Thomas Logans in Manchester were both tailors could just be coincidence.
-
Jonw65
Think I will name you super sleuth
Louisa Maud
-
Hi LM
It's very nice of you, but perhaps super dunce would be better.
Bridget Logan/Haverty married Thomas Kelly in 1874, not James :(
Though you never know, they might have got the name wrong in the rate book!
And of course the rest could still hold up. It seems quite likely it was that same Bridget who married Mr Kelly.
But it doesn't help Luke with the death cert. It may be his Thomas, who was a tailor, but as you said, LM, age is well out.
And we don't know he lived in that particular area. We do know that the Bridget discussed did, and she may well have been the widow of a different Thomas.
Oh dear!
John
-
Thank you all for such hard work and such great detective work. In my heart I was obviously hoping to solve this all and prove this Thomas to be the correct one but the evidence isnt really going that way at the moment. I am going to contact the Manchester Library to see what the electors books say just incase. I will keep you informed if I get anywhere.
I really appreciate all of this help, thanks,
Luke
-
Good luck Luke
Happy hunting
Louisa Maud
-
I have emailed the Manchester Library but have been thinking, finding Thomas' grave may give more information. Is Philips Park the most possible location do you think?
-
There is no entry in 1870 for Thomas Logan being buried in these cemeteries:
https://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/
-
Was he in West Gorton (Belle Vue) prison for a short spell in 1863?
No. 21118
Thomas Logan
Drunk + Riotous
14 days
Age 46
Tailor, born Ireland, wife Julia
Blind in one eye
Two images starting here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6169-1MB
-
Wow jonw65
-
Great find JonW65, it seems another of my relatives had a brush with the law, it seems everyone I find had a brush or two.
Thanks, Luke
-
Makes it interesting, I have bigamists plus a thief, not on my side I hasten to add on my husbands
LM