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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Dorey on Wednesday 09 September 20 09:50 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone could help me?
I would like to find Beatrice Maude Field after 1911, whom resides at 42 Oyster St, Portsmouth in the 1911 census.
Is there any records I could go to in Portsmouth to find out if she still lived there after 1911. I know in 1939 her daughters were still there but not her.
Any help on which direction i should go would be greatly appreciated.
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In answer to the question in your header the 1921 census is due out on FindMyPast in January 2022
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I know in 1939 her daughters were still there but not her.
are you quite sure about that?
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Just to help a little
FIELD, ELLEN AGNES GODWIN
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 537
FIELD, EDITH BEATRICE GODWIN
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 518
In the 1911 census Beatrice and her daughters are with her parents the Godwins. No sign of her husband with her.
Marriages Dec 1905
FIELD John Christopher M Portsmouth 2b 941
GODWIN Beatrice Maude Portsmouth 2b 941
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Her husband is down as married but boarding elsewhere.
Has he been traced after 1911?
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This looks like John's birth
FIELD, JOHN CHRISTOPHER MONDEY CHIVERS
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 537
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Index to Consular deaths 1936 - 1940
Consulate Lille
age 54 John C.M. Field
Although, does that ft with a butcher?
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The transcription of that death is suggesting a birth year of 1882 but there is no birth that matches that year.
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Also one record says Fields rather than Field :-\
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The rest of the record for the Lille death is Vol.33 Page 115, if Dorey wishes to consider obtaining it from the GRO.
Whether this one was a butcher when he died or had moved on to a different job..... ??? I don't know what sort of info is on a consular death certificate.
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I realise some of this has been posted but as I have looked for some time there is the odd snippet.
Beatrice Maude GODWIN m John Christopher Monday FIELD Q4/1905
FIELD, ELLEN AGNES 1906
FIELD, EDITH BEATRICE 1908
Both on 1911 census with their mother whos is transcribed as Godwin but written as Field, John a boarder elsewhere in the town he is a butcher.
As far as I can see the only related person living at 42 Oyster St in 1939 is her mother
Ellen Louisa Godwin nee Gates, she died in 1956.
Colin
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I would like to find Beatrice Maude Field after 1911, whom resides at 42 Oyster St, Portsmouth in the 1911 census.
Is there any records I could go to in Portsmouth to find out if she still lived there after 1911. I know in 1939 her daughters were still there but not her.
Electoral rolls 1918 and later, if she qualified to vote. All women over 21 got the vote in 1929.
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Just in case there's a Beatrice M Field death in South Africa 1954 born abt 1886.
Memorial stone has other names but difficult to read clearly. Beatrice is the mum on the stone.
Where did you find her daughters Dorey?
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If I have the right gravestone it says:-
In loving memory of my beloved husband and our dear dad
Arthur J B Field born 5th October 1868, died 25? October 1945
and our mom
Beatrice M Field 1886 - 1954
So dearly loved, so sadly missed.
South End Cemetery
Port Elizabeth,
Nelson Mandela Bay
Metropolitan Municipality,
Eastern Cape,
South Africa
Which doesn't suggest that we are looking at the right couple does it?
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Wasn't this case solved in 2017?
To everyone who helped find info Beatrice Maud Field, thank you. I now have her birth certificate and she was born in 17 June 1888.
So my husbands grandmother was Beatrice Maud Godwin born 17 June 1888
Married John Christopher Mumby(Monday) Field in Nov 1905
Had two children with him. Left them in 1912 to run off and marry (bigamously) my husbands grandad (Sidney Davis) in June 1912 using her married name of Beatrice Maud Field in Stroud, Gloucester
Died in Croston, Lancashire in 1955 having borne Sidney six children
Longish thread. Everyone weighed in, even me!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766429.msg6184324
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Hhmm, so Dorey could have carried on with that thread instead of starting a new one. Wouldn't have been difficult to adjust the topic title.
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Sorry, GG.
Perhaps Dorey will come back to tell us what's on her mind. Some new doubts? :-\
John
I would like to find Beatrice Maude Field after 1911, whom resides at 42 Oyster St, Portsmouth in the 1911 census.
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The transcription of that death is suggesting a birth year of 1882 but there is no birth that matches that year.
The year of death is not specified just 1936 to 1940. I think the transcription just grabs the first date.
1939-54 = 1885
Added, just seen Jon’s post ☹️
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Thank you all, yes this is addition to my 2017 request for Beatrice Maud Field, 42 Oyster Street, Portsmouth.
I apologise if I am causing confusion but I haven't picked my genealogy up since then as I was going round in circles.
The reason for my last post is because I am visiting Southsea, Portsmouth in October and would very much like to confirm that Beatrice Maud Field wasnt at that address after 1911 but I cannot or do not know where to look.
I cannot find any electoral rolls for that house after the 1911 census. Could you point me in the right direction on where to look?
Someone mentions if she could vote you can find her on something, is that the electoral roll.
Also, if she divorised John Field to marry again, where would I find her divorce records.
Is there anything I could look into when I go to visit Southsea, Portsmouth. Any help you could give me to confirm that she was not at this address after 1911 or point me in the right direction.
Although I have confirmed that the person whom married my husbands grandad is Beatrice Maud Field from birth certificates mentioned in the 2017. I would still like to confirm that she wasnt at that address after 1911.
All very complicated. Thank you for all your help in advance
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The electoral registers can be consulted at the Portsmouth History Centre which is located at the Central Library:
https://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/ext/libraries/portsmouth-history-centre-and-records-office
It is recommended that you get in touch with them prior to your visit due to all the current restrictions/social distancing etc. Advice is given on that page.
You stated on the other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766429.0
that
I know Sidney and Beatrice moved to Croston, Preston, Lancashire shortly after this and had six children.
In this instance 'this' refers to the 1912 marriage.
You said earlier that you wanted to confirm that she was not at that address (ie 42 Oyster Street) after 1911. Surely if her children with Sidney were all born in Lancashire, then it stands to reason that she was not living at 42 Oyster Street. Children had to be registered in the district in which they were born. Why would she go to Lancashire from Portsmouth for every birth? :-\
Personally I think that a trip to the library in Portsmouth to look at the electoral registers would be a fruitless exercise. She wouldn't appear until the 1920s when women got the vote and I think that her eldest child with Sidney was born in Lancashire well before that date.
Nell
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Oyster Street looks very pleasant
https://www.fryandkent.com/properties-for-sale/property/10419994-oyster-street-old-portsmouth
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Hi Neil, sorry to have confused. I am trying to confirm if Beatrice Maud Field was at 42 Oyster St, Portsmouth after 1911 because I think she married Sidney Davis in 1912 when she was still married to John Field. She had two children with John Field but apparently left them. I cannot find a death for Beatrice Maud Field in the Portsmouth area either.
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This looks like the marriage
Marriages Jun 1912
DAVIS Sidney Field Stroud 6a 809
Field Beatrice M Davis Stroud 6a 809
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If I have the right family, they are living in Chorley, Lancashire in 1939.
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Her death?
Deaths Mar 1955
Davis Beatrice M 68 Chorley 10c 62
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Yes, people thats great but was she a bigamist. Did she leave John Field in Southsea, Portsmouth and her two children to start a new life in Croston with Sydney. Can anyone find her death before the one in Chorley?
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Just to confirm, the GRO shows her second name:-
DAVIS, BEATRICE MAUD 68
GRO Reference: 1955 M Quarter in CHORLEY Volume 10C Page 62
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You stated on the other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766429.0
that
I know Sidney and Beatrice moved to Croston, Preston, Lancashire shortly after this and had six children.
In this instance 'this' refers to the 1912 marriage.
You said earlier that you wanted to confirm that she was not at that address (ie 42 Oyster Street) after 1911. Surely if her children with Sidney were all born in Lancashire, then it stands to reason that she was not living at 42 Oyster Street. Children had to be registered in the district in which they were born. Why would she go to Lancashire from Portsmouth for every birth? :-\
I was confused by "Croston, Preston" as I didn't think Croston came under Preston for residential and registration purposes.
Were these the children (with registration years)? Florence 1914, Sidney William 1916, Alfred John 1918, Thomas 1920, Ernest 1923, Harold 1926. Registered with mother's maiden surname Field.
Registration sub district Croston. Registers at Preston. This means that the original registers are stored at Preston not that Croston was a sub district of Preston. (Births index on Lancashire BMD website)
I looked up Sidney in GRO index to births. Registered in Chorley district. https?www.gro.gov.uk
Description of The Parish of Croston on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Croston/index.html
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Another death that could be a possibility
Deaths Jun 1974
DAVIS Beatrice Maud 15SE1887 Greenwich 12 1177
Birth registration
GODWIN, BEATRICE MAUD GATES
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 481
The death is one year out going by the birth.
Probate record:-
DAVIS Beatrice Maud of 39 Canberra Road, Bexleyheath, Kent died 7 June 1974. Probate London 21 August £13061 740126795G
Is she your Beatrice?
1939 has her birth date as 17 June 1888.
No probate for the 1955 death that I mentioned earlier.
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No, I dont think thats my Beatrice Maud.
Thank you for all your help.
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You stated on the other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766429.0
that
I know Sidney and Beatrice moved to Croston, Preston, Lancashire shortly after this and had six children.
In this instance 'this' refers to the 1912 marriage.
You said earlier that you wanted to confirm that she was not at that address (ie 42 Oyster Street) after 1911.
Surely if her children with Sidney were all born in Lancashire, then it stands to reason that she was not living at 42 Oyster Street. Children had to be registered in the district in which they were born. Why would she go to Lancashire from Portsmouth for every birth? :-\
Do you have the birth certificate of their first child giving their address?
I was confused by "Croston, Preston" as I didn't think Croston came under Preston for residential and registration purposes.
Were these the children (with registration years)?
Florence 1914,
Sidney William 1916,
Alfred John 1918,
T 1920,
E 1923,
H 1926. Registered with mother's maiden surname Field.
Registration sub district Croston. Registers at Preston. This means that the original registers are stored at Preston not that Croston was a sub district of Preston. (Births index on Lancashire BMD website)
I looked up Sidney in GRO index to births. Registered in Chorley district. https?www.gro.gov.uk
Description of The Parish of Croston on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Croston/index.html
Amended to edit some of the names born after 1918 just in case.....
Is this a late baptism for E Davis born 1923?
From Lancashire OPC
2 Dec 1959 St Michael & All Angels, Croston, Lancashire
E DAVIS parents Sidney Davis & Beatrice Maude
Notes: Conditional Baptism
if she divorised John Field to marry again, where would I find her divorce records.
You could check here - although I didn't see anything
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/#4-divorce-case-files-1858-1937
For info…. Just in case you don’t have details from the m/c married 14th Nov 1905
John age 20 occ confectioner his father Thomas, occ Seaman RN
Beatrice age 18 her father Alfred occ Carter
Have added a snippet of the 1905 marriage entry for Beatrice in case you wanted to compare her signature on her marriage cert. to Sidney
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Are any of the children of Sidney and Beatrice alive? I posted their names and birth registrations in my reply #27. I shouldn't have done if they are alive.
Ladyhawk re conditional baptism 1959 in reply #30, there were marriage banns for a man with the same name at that church 1949. (Bride was of a parish in Southport.) There are baptisms for 2 children of the couple in 1950s at St. Michael, Croston. Not naming them as they are likely to be alive.
Records indicate that Beatrice & Sidney's family were in Croston 1912-1926 and one of their sons was still there in 1950s. Have any of them been found on 1939 Register?
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Are any of the children of Sidney and Beatrice alive?
I posted their names and birth registrations in my reply #27.
I shouldn't have done if they are alive.
Maiden Stone - Have amended my post for names after 1918 just in case......possible death entries for E DAVIS
born 15 1 1923 Mar 2002 West Lancashire
or
born 5 1 1923 Mar 1999 Lancaster
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Have any of them been found on 1939 Register?
If I have the right family, they are living in Chorley, Lancashire in 1939.
Maiden Stone - Son's death entries
Harold DAVIS Born 13 2 1926 Dec 2001 Chorley
Thomas DAVIS Born 20 10 1920 Jun 2001 Preston & South Ribble
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Florence Davis married John W Alty 1939 Chorley
Death
Florence Alty
b 25-3-1914
d 2/1981 Chorley
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I was too late to take out names from my reply #30.
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I am really grateful to you all for collating the family in Croston, Preston, Lancashire. I have researched all of them but its Beatrice Maude Field, whom I cannot find. I really thought that if I could prove she was not at the address of 42 Oyster Street, Portsmouth after 1912 that she had run off from her family in Portsmouth with Sidney Davis to marry him in Rodborough in 1912 and then they both had come to Croston, Preston , Lancashire to start a family.
She were would I start to find out if Beatrice Maude Field was at 42 Oyster Steet, Portsmouth after 1912?
Thank you all
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May I suggest that you contact the Portsmouth History Centre?
Email: portsmouthhistorycentre@portsmouthcc.gov.uk
Tel: 023 9268 8046
Explain what you are trying to do regarding electoral rolls and see what they say. If they do a search for you a charge may well be made.
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Dorey was advised where to find the electoral registers in reply #19. And that any female would not appear until after women were granted the vote. This would inevitably leave a gap from 1911 until that time. Women over 30 who met certain property requirements were granted the vote under a law passed in 1918. Full sufferage was granted under a law passed in 1928.
I can't see a way to establish her whereabouts conclusively from the records available after 1911. Even with 1921 census record, all you could say with certainty is where a Beatrice Maud Field and/or Davis born cir 1888 was living at that time and that she was born in the right area. Unless a known family member from her possible earlier life is with her, any link would still not be confirmed 100%.
As I understand it, you seem to believe that she did run off. Or have I misunderstood things?
Nell
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Dorey - reply 30
I added a snippet of Beatrice's signature from her 1905 marriage to John Christopher Monday FIELD.
Did you compare the signature from the Beatrice Maude FIELD 1912 marriage to Samuel DAVIS?
Were they similar? - perhaps you can add a snippet here if you're not sure
May have missed it as it's a long thread who witnessed Beatrice/Sidney marriage?
The only thing I have is their marriage certificate and that she married to;
Sidney Davis on 3rd June 1912 at Stroud Register office, he was 36 years old a bachelor and just come out of the Army, 1st battalion of the Gloucesertshire Regiment and had been discharged from Cambridge Barracks, Portsmouth on 13 May 1912. He was born in Randwick near Stroud and his father William Davis was deceased.
I believe you mentioned Beatrice residence from 1912 marriage was Rodborough
Also at reply 30 I asked if you had a birth certificate for Beatrice Maude Field & Samuel Davis first child and if so, was she formally Field or Godwin?
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Thank you Ladyhawk, Girl Guide and Little Nell. I have rang the Portsmouth History Centre but unless she was a rent holder after 1911 they think it impossible to trace her.
I have misplaced her marriage certificate to Sidney Davis and am frantically looking for it to compare the signature on her marriage to John Field.
I am assuming because I cannot find a death for Beatrice Made Field in Portsmouth or similar that she is the bigamist I think she is and married Sidney Davis etc.
One of my husbands Aunties remembers that she came from Portsmouth and that she never mentioned a family down there and no one of her family visited her.
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I have misplaced her marriage certificate to Sidney Davis and am frantically looking for it to compare the signature on her marriage to John Field.
If it is from the GRO it won't have her original signature.
She may have disguised it anyway ;D
The only thing I have is their marriage certificate and that she married to;
Sidney Davis on 3rd June 1912 at Stroud Register office, he was 36 years old a bachelor and just come out of the Army, 1st battalion of the Gloucesertshire Regiment and had been discharged from Cambridge Barracks, Portsmouth on 13 May 1912. He was born in Randwick near Stroud and his father William Davis was deceased.
Beatrice Maud(e) Field married on 3rd June 1912 at Stroud Register office, she was 24 years old, her occupation was Laundress and her residence at the time of her marriage was Rodborough, her fathers name was Alfred John Field whom she states was a salesman.
The witnesses were E Rowles and A Rowles
She had six children and one lived in London and used to holiday at Southsea. He always used to say that's were his Mum came from.
Link again to the old thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766429.0
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May have missed it as it's a long thread
This one is fast catching it up!