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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: AsH62 on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:05 BST (UK)

Title: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: AsH62 on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:05 BST (UK)
Hi I am trying to find out who was living at 43 Great Mersey Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool in the 1891 census, without a name I am not sure how to do this. In 1889 this was the address given at the baptism of a 13 year old boy called Thomas Leonard Matthews. Thomas was born in St Austell, his mother lived in Plymouth with her new partner and his father lived in Wales! I can find no reason why Thomas was baptised in Liverpool especially because it appears that both of his biological parents were there despite separating a long time earlier and having new partners and children.
My hope is that if I can find out who was at this address then I can work out what was happening.
Any help would be great
Thanks
Alison
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:19 BST (UK)
The occupier of 43 in the 1891 census was Samuel "Banard", a pawnbroker, and his wife Robena.  Gore's directory for 1894 lists him as Samuel Barnard.

There was a Welsh Congregational Chapel at 45, though it is not mentioned in the census.
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:29 BST (UK)
The Stage of 6 July 1888 has a listing for Miss Annie Craston c/o  Marie Durant, 43, Great Mersey street, Liverpool.

The edition of 17 August 1888 has a listing for Miss Julia Lewis and Little Bella Windermear, same address.
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:49 BST (UK)
Puzzling.  Was Thomas adopted by a Liverpool family  :-\

Where is he in 1881/1891?
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:02 BST (UK)
Quote
it appears that both of his biological parents were there

Is there any evidence that either parent was present at the baptism?
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:09 BST (UK)
I can't seem to find the parents after he was born. 

If they married in 1861 then didn't they have other children in the 15 years before he was born?

Am working on the parents being

George Richard Matthews and
Jane Rose Ellen Broom
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: bevo on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:13 BST (UK)

His sister?

Marriage: 1 Jun 1889 St Aidan, Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Robert Arthur Coleman - 25, Engineer, Bachelor, 19 Great Mersey Str.
Marion Matthews - 22, Spinster, 43 Great Mersey Str.
    Groom's Father: Thomas Daniel Coleman, Engineer
    Bride's Father: George Richard Matthews, Contractor
    Witness: Francis Charles Watkin Robinson; Alice Maude Follett
   
Baptism: 16 Nov 1889 St James the Less, Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Thomas Leonard Matthews - [Child] of George Richard Matthews & Jane Rose Ellen
    Abode: 43 Great Mersey St
    Occupation: Contractor
    Notes: 13 years old

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

   
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:31 BST (UK)
If this is her birth Marian Matthews Sep 1870 South Molton then mothers name for her is Tapp.

Maybe that's not her although as Marion Coleman she puts birthplace South Molton.

Well  ??? by this one.

Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:40 BST (UK)
MATTHEWS, MARY  ANN    mmn BROOM 
1866  M Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON  Volume 5B  Page 501
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: AsH62 on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:49 BST (UK)
Oh my goodness, I nipped out to the shop and have come home to all this brilliant information.
The theatrical listing is ringing bells in my brain, i have heard the name Durant before so i need to go and check my notes.
There is no evidence that the parents were actually there at the baptism. It's a complex family, Jane married George Richard Matthews in 1861, Jane already had a baby with no listed father. In 1961 they were living with her family (now with the surname Fish) in Topsham but by 1871 he was in the military and after that I have no idea until I found his death record in Bridgend in 1895. Their son Thomas Leonard was born in 1875 fifteen years into their marriage (your facts are correct Milliepede) and after he left with the army but there are always times when he would have been back on leave. The 1911 census said that Jane and her next partner John Rice married in 1879 and they had a son called John Albert Rice Matthews in 1881. In 1882 they got married in Plymouth and then in 1895 when her first husband died they married again, also in Plymouth. Because that wasn't complicated enough in the 1891 census Jane was living with her son John Rice (they dropped his surname of Matthews) but John Rice senior was living in a different house with Jane's son Thomas!
I have just seen your 'sister' post - that's looks brilliant, especially as one of the witnesses is a Follett - a big name in Topsham
Thank you
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 08 September 20 22:08 BST (UK)
In 1901 John A Rice 20 is living with the Colemans as brother in law so that links the relationship with Marion. 
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 09 September 20 09:30 BST (UK)
Quote
by 1871 he was in the military and after that I have no idea until I found his death record in Bridgend in 1895

"In the military" - are you looking at the George Matthews from Topsham who was a gunner on HMS Excellent in the 1871 census? That was George Hoare Matthews (Royal Navy service number 3898) born Topsham 19 August 1836. He is in the 1901 census in Portsmouth.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9525115
Title: Re: 43 Great Mersey Street Liverpool
Post by: AsH62 on Wednesday 09 September 20 10:57 BST (UK)
Hi, that's definitely him as a gunner in 1871, thank you that's great, George Hoare Matthews is a different man and so i need to find out if he is related. Thank you again to everyone who has helped, there was so much information to take in yesterday and it has lead to lots of new people and leads.
Alison