RootsChat.Com
General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Flemming on Monday 07 September 20 08:19 BST (UK)
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Is anyone else getting new matches (the few there are now :-\) with, for example, Ireland and Scotland shown separately? I'm getting this but my own Ireland/Scotland is still a combined %. Just wonder if this means the *new* format will apply to people taking the test from now on, but not for those already tested.
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I looked at my matches and for my matches the new feature only applies to people who tested in the last 7 days. All matches before that, and myself, have the old combined Scotland & Ireland
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Marvellous. Another less than helpful 'improvement'. Chromosome browser next? ::)
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Everyone’s going to be updated by the 14th September apparently.
It’ll be interesting to see what disappears this time!
Romilly ;D
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One of mine has the divided Ireland Scotland result and there is a information icon under 'You' and updated written beside it, hover or that and it tell you a bit about the updates.
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What does it mean, though?
AncestryDNA recently updated ethnicity estimate results based on advances in DNA science and additional data. Until all users update their results, you may see differences in regions and region names as you compare results.
It made me smile that the page banner says they're updating ethnicity to be 'even more precise.' ;D
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I see it also splits out Welsh from English/Northern Europe
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Mine's not changed yet. I feel deprived (not).
I really don't like this focus on ethnicity.
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I'm looking forward to the change .. splitting the Welsh and Scottish may help me find relatives of my mother's Scottish great grandmother who we know nothing about .
In theory I don't like the idea of ethnicity splits but in practice it already works for me with people of European Jewish ethnicity always linking to her maternal grandfather
When you know which line your match is from ..it makes it easier to join dots. Especially if outside the known marriage.
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Mine's not changed yet. I feel deprived (not).
I really don't like this focus on ethnicity.
It seems to be their main focus in their ads, so probably has attracted people who are interested in this aspect. We see a lot of questions on rootschat with people looking to find where that mystery (often tiny) percentage of X ethnicity fits into their family tree. Presumably Ancestry get millions of queries about this, so are trying to clarify. :-\
I have not tested with Ancestry (yet anyway) but I know almost everyone else has. Apart from the higher possibility of more matches, I am not sure it has much going for it judging by the general dissatisfaction of many rootschatters. ;D
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A lot of people also.take tests to find out about their birth parents or ancestors true parentage
These are the kind of case where ethnicity can be important ..and the people arent necessarily interested in exploring beyond the mystery person
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Mine was updated today as well as my husband and my daughters accounts which I manage. My 39% Irish has now been split into 9% Scottish and 30% Irish.
My 2% Swedish has now gone up to 8%.
This is the third time since I took the Ancestry test that my ethnicity estimates have changed. I don't mind that "My DNA doesn't change but our science does" but anyone who believes they can use the ethnicity estimates to calculate or find ancestors will be very disappointed since the results are not contant.
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Thanks for the tip-off. It's also my 3rd iteration and this time I've gone from 74% to 61% Eng/NW Europe (with no % for the regions within this), and from 24% to 35% Ireland/Scotland, split 27% and 8% respectively. I've lost my 2% Germanic Europe and gained 4% Norway (which I used to have in the first iteration).
The Ireland/Scotland split is interesting because most of the Scottish lot started off in Ireland, or went back and forth between the two during the Plantation era. Losing the Germanic Europe % is also a head-scratcher because there goes my 4x great grandfather from Dusseldorf. Lord knows where the Norway connection comes in. Perhaps he came to the UK via Oslo. And whilst the England/NW Europe slug still splits into two UK geographic regions, there's still no reference to the multiple French Huguenot lines in my tree.
As their banner says, they've made it 'even more precise'. ::) ::)
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Goodness gracious, they have change it - I was Eng and Wales 50%; Scot & Ireland 47%; Norway 2%
I'm now
75% Welsh
12% Scottish
11% Irish
2% England and NW Europe (NW England and Midlands)
That fits with my tree much more clearly.
I demand independence from England ;D ;D ;D ;D
(I wonder what I'll be next time - also the 3rd change since I did the test)
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That's better!
I was 54% Scotland and Ireland, 46% England, Wales and North-western Europe (I think).
I'm now 87% Wales, 7% Scotland, 6% Ireland, 0% England. This makes much more sense.
I'm finding matches with 0% Wales who, I hope, will help me identify the 7% Scotland, 6% Ireland
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My sister and I were 100% Ireland and Scotland
I'm now 89% Ireland 11% Scotland
my sister 87% Ireland 13% Scotland.
Which fits fairly well with the surnames I've found.
We know one surname has it's origins in northern France and it's interesting to see the area highlighted on the map even though it doesn't feature in the percentages.
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I am not convinced they know what they are doing. ::)
I was
England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 90%
Ireland & Scotland 5%
Norway 5%
I am now
England & Northwestern Europe 64%
Scotland 22%
Sweden 6%
Norway 4%
Ireland 4%
Now although it says Scotland 22% when i click on the figure it says
"Your ethnicity estimate is 22%, but it can range from 0—27%"
Or in other words they haven't got a clue ::)
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What ethnicities does you tree suggest, David?
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What ethnicities does you tree suggest, David?
Basically my paternal side is all northern England i.e Northumberland, Durham and North Yorkshire. I see that Ancestry are including Northumberland and Durham in their idea of Scotland so i guess that could account for why they have given me 22% Scottish (and yes i guess some of them could have migrated from Scotland at some point).
My maternal side is pretty well spread over southern England so could account for a large part of the 64% England they have given me.
Actually having looked at it a little further and clicking on the percentages to see the maps of the areas to match the descriptions is quite illuminating and not always what you would expect
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I suddenly have as much as 25% from Scotland despite only having one Scottish gg-grandparent (well, she was 1st generation American but of Scots-Irish blood). Perhaps her genes were extra strong!
Have lost my traces of Swedish - so much for distant Viking heritage.
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I've now got 20% Scottish and 3% Welsh with the split. This is hard to reconcile with what I know of my ancestry over the past 500 years with no ancestor identified from North of Birmingham/Walsall!
In contrast myHeritage has me as 36.4% Scandanavian cf Ancestry's 3% Swedish
My wife has gone from 97% English and 3% Swedish to 82% and 10% with 8% Scottish appearing from nowhere
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Whoopee! I'm a Viking again ;D
When I first got my DNA results, I had quite a bit of Scandinavian, then on the next update it all disappeared, and now it's back again.
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On Ancestry I'm now
72% England / NW Europe ( Central Southern England - Hampshire and Isle of Wight)
11% Scottish
6% Irish
6% Norwegian
5% Swedish
But on My Heritage
50 % English
15 % N W Europe
18% Scandinavian
16% Eastern European
1% Melanesian
Paternal grandfather - Berks / Oxon
Paternal grandmother - half from Sussex - half from Channel Isles
Maternal grandfather - Hampshire
Maternal grandmother - Yorkshire
Scandinavian could come from both Yorkshire and Channel Islands, but surprised such a high level considering it was zero on previous iteration.
I had a Scottish ancestor who settled in Channel Islands and married an islander so explains a bit of the Scottish
Irish - haven't a clue unless it is my unknown 3 x great grandfather or he might be the Eastern European who pops up in My Heritage.
My 2C1R who has 1/8 from Hampshire (half from the same line as my quarter) has no English at all according to MH. But it did confirm what had been suspected about the nationality of his father.
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MH says I have no English, despite 15 of my 16 gg-grandparents being English! They are very keen on giving everyone a good chunk of Scandinavian.
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Interesting how it works for some and not others. Ancestry's second iteration for me almost matched my tree exactly - but this third one is way off. Now MH is more accurate, although both have the Scandinavian element - could this be right? Oh, look at me falling into the ethnicity trap.
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I have had 4 different estimates, since first test results in April 18 - then it was 88% Ireland/Scotland/Wales, the other 12 % being east Europe/West Europe/GB/Scandinavia/Finland & Russia & South Asian (<1%).
In May 2019 I was 100% Ireland Scotland.
My next upgrade (don't have the date to hand) I was 96% Irish/Scottish the other 4 being variations on the same theme, Northern Ireland/ Western Scotland, etc., including ?? Cumbria.
Finally today I am 79 % Irish, 21% Scottish, with the areas involved being the same as before, Connacht (Galway/Connemara), Donegal (esp. Inishowen), Northern Ireland/ Southwest Scotland and Western Scotland etc, with the inclusion of Brittany somewhere there too. However, they all indicate what is true, as far as we are aware, we are of very nearly 100% Irish origin, though in Scotland in some cases for 200 years, and much of the origin in Ireland being from places in the north, from which people travelled back and forth to the south and west of Scotland for a millennium. So it is likely impossible to distinguish between the people in these areas of Ireland & Scotland, anyway.
So for me, the different ethnicity estimates have always been pretty close to what we thought, basically Irish with a wee bit of 'Scottish incomers' to Ireland in the north, probably, and then everyone transferring over to Scotland, just to confuse things a wee bit more! However how accurate they are for everyone else, well thats for everyone else to say.
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For me I can compare with my mother's update and paternal aunt s
So Im still 56 percent Scottish .mostly my fathers side but my mother had a Scottish great great grandmother
She is now 38 percent welsh which makes sense as the liverpool 3 cheshire grandparents had origins there
22 percent English from the other grandparent
My scottish aunt has 5 percent English
She.ll be pleased with that as thinks of herself as pure Scot
But I dont understand how I am less English than either of them ...
2 percent !!
Thats a number I would normally ignore
Im 2 ,percent Italian too..where from ..Id like my viking percentage back please
Im more Irish than English .., no known ancestors from there
Everything else tallies
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I’m now 45% Welsh!
My English has gone down, but my Irish and Scottish has gone up...
And I’ve lost my German, but my Ashkenazi Jewish DNA has gone up to 9%. I know that’s from my Paternal side, but I have no idea how far back that might be. One Great Grandparent, possibly?
Romilly.
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So many who take an Ancestry DNA do not seem to generate any Tree at all, and even if they created a tree offline what is the point, there needs to be a comparison to prove parentage or lineage. If they do not generate a tree they will not easily find a Family tree to which they belong.
I have one trio of matches, a Father and two Daughters which would meet comparison criteria, none of my other 360+ matches remotely look like siblings or parent and offspring.
A one off DNA test in isolation will only show estimate of ethnicity and even then what Ancestry actually show and say have a very, very wide margin for error.
Many of us who took the DNA test a few years ago have seen a vast change in what Ancestry reports by way of ethnicity. Hence if someone say in my matches took a test a year ago then failed to follow updates then what their test would report today may very well be considerably different to what it was when they first got the results.
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Romily if you have one great grandfather like myself who is European Jewish
Their may have migrated during programs around 1890s
Heres a quick experiment you can do .
Put Russia into the search option for locations of shared matches
See how many matches you get even small ones
Then try Poland Ukraine Latvia
Some people don't know origins
But take a look at ethnicity of some of your unknown matches you'll probably find some names or variations of names which keep coming up .
Where were your known great grandparents located ? Was it towns with synagogues ??
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Brigidmac, - the problem is that I don’t know:-(
My paternal grandfather was born in Manchester in 1860, and I’m assuming that the Ashkenazi Jewish DNA comes from his mother, but I have no names or dates...
I’ll try the steps that you suggest, - thanks.
Romilly.
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I notice that the banner re updated ethnicity results is still there across the DNA pages. Is there some more updating to come does anyone know?
Pheno
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The banner on mine has changed to say 'We've updated...' in the past tense. One day, might we see 'We've added a chromosome browser'? No? Ah well.
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Ouch Aye, I’m now 12% Scottish and my wife 27% - neither obvious. Couldn’t Ancestry have identified the tartan which goes with it? Clearly the next step!
My Irish (which I could explain)has gone from 5% to 3% to 0% while my German has gone from 0% to 11% to 15%. They’re taking us over after all!
My wife’s German (again which I could explain) has gone from 5% to 2% Norwegian to 2% Swedish. (I ‘m looking forward to the Inuit percentage next time ...)
To be fair they have singled out meaningful significant regions for both of us.
Phil
The science of ethnicity is matched only by the science of lockdown.
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I'm fairly confident in my paper trail and it shows English (southern) 75% and Scottish 25%. My previous Ancestry split was Scottish 33%, English 60% abd a few small others, which I thought pretty accurate. I've now gone to Scottish 52% - I can only assume that a lot more distant cousins from the Scots side have taken tests.
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I was 83% english and 17% irish
Now I am 59% english, 6% irish and 35% scottish
Very surprised about the scottish part, but it gives evidence to my theory that my family the Steeles were from the lowlands in dumfrieshire
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Ouch Aye, I’m now 12% Scottish and my wife 27% - neither obvious. Couldn’t Ancestry have identified the tartan which goes with it? Clearly the next step!
My Irish (which I could explain)has gone from 5% to 3% to 0% while my German has gone from 0% to 11% to 15%. They’re taking us over after all!
My wife’s German (again which I could explain) has gone from 5% to 2% Norwegian to 2% Swedish. (I ‘m looking forward to the Inuit percentage next time ...)
To be fair they have singled out meaningful significant regions for both of us.
Phil
The science of ethnicity is matched only by the science of lockdown.
I think a lot, if not most people are seeing these unreasonably high levels of Scottish in these new estimates - even NW Europeans i.e. north west Germans, Dutch who were previously told they were English. Presumably it's down to Ancestry's attempts to separate out Scotland and Ireland and England and Wales and arriving with something that is perhaps not very accurate. It is not completely impossible that my testees have these levels because of many hidden Scottish ancestors some way back, I've no doubt there was a lot of migration of Scots down into England from very early days, but obviously increased during the Highland and Lowland clearances, but I have my doubts Ancestry's new estimates are really accurate.
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I have noticed in comparing some possible matches that some ethnicity % are only half done ! Like they add up for
these people as maybe 60% (like the lab had a snooze.)
Somehow myself: now has my 10 % Swedish is now morphed into Norway. Strange that my children on their paternal side is half
Icelandic which translates into Norway % . I have no problem with these other DNA findings . Interesting that 10%
Of an ethnic estimate = into a greatgreatgrandparent may be 100 % of something. Tells me to never think that
for example: that 3 % is nothing much.
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I have gone upto 26% Scottish from having none previously. If you look a bit closer at the new estimates it gives a range.
The range I have says I could actually be anywhere from 0-26% so it is hardly accurate and they choose the top end of the range to report!
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I'd love to know the methodology behind these updates. They seem to veer wildly one way or the other. Mine now much more closely matches what I'd expect from my research, but is the tail wagging the dog?
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Well, knock me down with a feather, for the first time I actually have my Scottish ancestors recognised in my new ethnicity estimate. Never been mentioned before even though its quite a strong ancestral line.
As for my Scandi heritage: it has varied from none, to Swedish and now to Norwegian (none of which I have found). I've even got Germanic this time round - again, no evidence found. Dummkopf!
Its a giggle - nothing more, but I bet its a winner for them because it seems to draw in a lot of DNA testers for who that's their only interest. Seems a lot to pay just for that!
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What amuses me is my son and I both have 16% Scottish ethnicity. Back to the 1700’s no Scottish blood in my line.
Son, well his father was from Scotland. His mother back four generations is Scottish. How do they work that out?
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I was 2% norway but that has disappeared, was that a mistake initially?
Now I am 57% Scottish, 37% England & North Western Europe, 8% Ireland & 2% Wales.
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I was 2% norway but that has disappeared, was that a mistake initially?
Now I am 57% Scottish, 37% England & North Western Europe, 8% Ireland & 2% Wales.
I think the Norway and Swedish are just to give what they think customers want, which is Viking ancestry, which for most people is ancient, apart from places like Orkney which remained Viking ruled until the 15th century. Of course many of us Brits and Irish also have a lot of Norman French and huguenot ancestry, but Ancestry seems not to really be bothered about highlighting this in the same way - that may be partly that because they can't separate it out as easily, or they have very few reference samples from France in comparison to the UK or Ireland (or Scandinavia), or it is diluted far too small and relatively randomly spread to recognise any certain pattern.
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Totally off topic - Cazza47, I love your little kitten picture. He/she looks just like my Dylan did when he was a kitten (all angelic and "butter wouldn't melt" innocent).
I'd like to take him/her home with me please. Please! ;D
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Unfortunately I lost my lovely little cat a few years ago, she was actually nearly 20 years old when that photo was taken.
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Has anyone else got an email from Ancestry saying the following...?
As you may know, we’re constantly evolving the technology and methods behind AncestryDNA®. Using a combination of scientific expertise, the world’s largest online consumer DNA database, and millions of family trees linked with DNA results, we’re releasing our most precise DNA update yet.
With this latest update, you’ll notice that we now have four regions in the UK and Ireland, rather than two; England & Northwestern Europe, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Because the DNA from our reference groups in Scotland and England are so similar, it’s possible that if you have English ethnicity, particularly northern England, you may now find an increased percentage of Scotland in your results and vice versa.
While your DNA doesn’t change, the science we use to determine your ethnicity results does. As we continue to advance our science, you will see even more updates in the future.
Millions of family trees linked with DNA results. Worrying.
I note the north-west tip of France is attached to Ireland and Scotland under their mapping system.
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Feels like someone in their team has been singing Scotland the Brave a lot! ;D
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Unfortunately I lost my lovely little cat a few years ago, she was actually nearly 20 years old when that photo was taken.
Sorry. I know how devastating it is to lose a cat. I lost my Daisy nearly 2 years ago now and I still look for her sometimes, thinking she should be indoors by now. She was only 15.
Your cat looks so small in the picture - just like a kitten. Very pretty.
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From an e-mail that I've just received from Ancestry:
Because the DNA from our reference groups in Scotland and England are so similar, it’s possible that if you have English ethnicity, particularly northern England, you may now find an increased percentage of Scotland in your results and vice versa.
I assume everyone who has done a test has had one ;D
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With this latest update, you’ll notice that we now have four regions in the UK and Ireland, rather than two; England & Northwestern Europe, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Because the DNA from our reference groups in Scotland and England are so similar, it’s possible that if you have English ethnicity, particularly northern England, you may now find an increased percentage of Scotland in your results and vice versa.
That's an interesting point about English and Scottish DNA being so similar. FTDNA played safe by saying simply that I had 52% British Isles ancestry. MyHeritage specifically said I had 62% Irish/Scottish/Welsh but no English DNA, so they made a distinction. The no English bit is odd because I know for a fact that my Stephenson ancestors on my mother's side were from Northumberland although I have to go back to my 3 x great-grandfather to find the most recent one actually born in Northumberland.
Harry
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Regarding ethnicity queries over accuracy - have people honestly accounted for all their autosomal matches. I rest my case.
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That argument would hold if Ancestry used pure science to work out ethnicity but a large part of it is based on what they find in people’s trees and there is a high level of inaccuracy in these as a source.
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That argument would hold if Ancestry used pure science to work out ethnicity but a large part of it is based on what they find in people’s trees and there is a high level of inaccuracy in these as a source.
The most accurate data they have is the Irish data, which I suspect was acquired from the Irish DNA Atlas which was a detailed study that took people with eight great grandparents all born within the same area to build a genetic map of Ireland. The data for a similar, but not quite as thorough (four grandparents) project for England & Wales, the People of the British Isles study, is used by Living DNA. There was a similar study for Scotland more recently done but I don't know whether any of the companies has yet acquired the data
https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/genetic-map-shows-dark-age-scottish-kingdoms-live-todays-scots-1408678
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064
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My recent update shows 43% England and N W Europe. Why are they lumped together? It is accurate on where my English ancestors lived.
There is also 23% Germanic Europe, though with a wide % range offered, and this puzzles me. Perhaps it is all those Anglo-Saxon ancestors!!
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My recent update shows 43% England and N W Europe. Why are they lumped together? It is accurate on where my English ancestors lived.
There is also 23% Germanic Europe, though with a wide % range offered, and this puzzles me. Perhaps it is all those Anglo-Saxon ancestors!!
Because English and north west Germans, Dutch, southern Danish, Belgians, north French are all very genetically similar. They could do a better job at separating them but as far as I know there has been no similar country wide DNA study of Holland, Germany or Belgium yet so they often have a large percentage of their ancestry marked as English, no doubt much to their annoyance :P. There was a DNA study of France a couple of years ago which Ancestry may have incorporated, but it was flawed as it just used data from blood tests done for medical reasons and only based on birth place and having a French sounding name, so it likely included people with a lot of Spanish and Italian genetics which comprised a lot of the immigration to France 1870s-1970s so perversely a lot of Italians on Ancestry suddenly became French ::).
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is 35% scottish a lot to have genetically?
It appeared with the update
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Does anyone know how often these updates happen?
Is it randomly every few months or once a year?
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Mine has totally changed and I've gone from having 1% Jewish ancestry to 3%! It also shows 14% Scottish but as far as I know the only Scottish ancestry I have is my 4 x g.grandfather, and his ancestors which I've found as far back as his grandparents on both sides of his family. Whether that adds up to 14% I have no idea. It seems a lot of DNA to me, but what do I know? Apparently, I am only 69% English and Northwestern Europe, which is a surprise as, apart from my Scottish 4 x g.grandfather and my missing g.grandfather's mother who I think is where the Jewish ancestry comes from (and possibly the 4% Spanish), all the ancestors I've researched have come from England.
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is 35% scottish a lot to have genetically?
It appeared with the update
Does anyone know how often these updates happen?
Is it randomly every few months or once a year?
Well, what were you before the update :)? Are you aware of any obvious Scottish ancestry? I think there is an update about every year, but it may be two years!
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Mine has totally changed and I've gone from having 1% Jewish ancestry to 3%! It also shows 14% Scottish but as far as I know the only Scottish ancestry I have is my 4 x g.grandfather, and his ancestors which I've found as far back as his grandparents on both sides of his family. Whether that adds up to 14% I have no idea. It seems a lot of DNA to me, but what do I know? Apparently, I am only 69% English and Northwestern Europe, which is a surprise as, apart from my Scottish 4 x g.grandfather and my missing g.grandfather's mother who I think is where the Jewish ancestry comes from (and possibly the 4% Spanish), all the ancestors I've researched have come from England.
If you mean great great great great grandfather, on average, that would be 1/64 of your DNA i.e 1.5%. So 14% would be surprising. But just about everyone seems to be getting a far too high level of Scottish given their traced ancestry so something has gone hokey with Ancestry's attempt to separate it from Irish and English. It does slightly make me despair as surely they have plenty of willing BETA testers they could have used before hand to see if the algorithm delivered even near accurate results. So it either seems to me they don't actually particularly care about the accuracy enough to do BETA testing, or if they do do it, they don't have either the willingness or finances from Ancestry to do extra work in fine tuning the algorithm if a BETA test programme shows it up as not being accurate.
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Yes, great, great, great, great (4 x great) grandfather. I note from another post on here that Ancestry is now saying "Because the DNA from our reference groups in Scotland and England are so similar, it’s possible that if you have English ethnicity, particularly northern England, you may now find an increased percentage of Scotland in your results and vice versa" which makes sense because many generations of my ancestors lived in Cumberland which is less than 20 miles to Gretna Green.
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Yes, great, great, great, great (4 x great) grandfather. I note from another post on here that Ancestry is now saying "Because the DNA from our reference groups in Scotland and England are so similar, it’s possible that if you have English ethnicity, particularly northern England, you may now find an increased percentage of Scotland in your results and vice versa" which makes sense because many generations of my ancestors lived in Cumberland which is less than 20 miles to Gretna Green.
Well, there is definitely genetic crossover between Scotland and England, mainly between the lowlands and Cumbria, Northumberland and Durham, which you can see on the map of the Genetic Landscape of Scotland study pdf, page 3
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/38/19064.full.pdf
The problem is I still do not really buy this as an excuse on Ancestry's part, as on both my parents kits, Scotland has vastly increased, but they have no ancestry from these far north counties either.
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I accepted the update of my DNA Ethnicity last week to find quite a change.
Then I log in today and find that there is yet another Ethnicity update.
It sort of screwed me up as I had just finished putting a presentation together for our online Zoom Family History Group meeting that is occuring tomorrow afternoon.
The blurb that Ancestry has on the Ethnicity updates does make interesting reading but I think I will still take it as a very rough approximation.
Just how my Mancunian Wife is 35% Scottish is another matter despite 1/4 of her Ancestors being from Dorset and 1/8 from East Anglia the remaining others being Manchester/Bradford/Leeds
I am 3% Scottish but my family is 1/4 Wales/Herefordshire and the remainder Cheshire/North Lancs and West Yorkshire and yet I am 20% Irish