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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: OBrien1 on Friday 21 August 20 00:14 BST (UK)
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Hello all.
I hope this is in the correct forum.
This is William Kennedy and I'm looking to confirm is his uniform a British Militaty one and what regiment and roughly what date is it WW1.
Thank You Kindly.
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The pattern is that of a British Army uniform of the WW! era. It has been rather enthusiastically coloured so the khaki colour that should look much lighter has come out almost blue. The shoulder titles which would give us the regiment aren't clear enough (for me at least!). Lanyard worn by many so no real help, buttons also not recognisable for me except they don't appear to be the General Service buttons.
Other eyes may fare better.
MaxD
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Perhaps we could find some record of him with a bit more information - for instance birth place and date of birth.
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The pattern is that of a British Army uniform of the WW! era. It has been rather enthusiastically coloured so the khaki colour that should look much lighter has come out almost blue. The shoulder titles which would give us the regiment aren't clear enough (for me at least!). Lanyard worn by many so no real help, buttons also not recognisable for me except they don't appear to be the General Service buttons.
Other eyes may fare better.
MaxD
Max, appreciate the reply thank you
I will post the black and white version also.
Regards
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Perhaps we could find some record of him with a bit more information - for instance birth place and date of birth.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes William Kennedy
Born 18 July 1889.
South Dublin Union Workhouse.
No death cert found I've tried a few times. Hard to narrow it down to him.
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William Kennedy black and white version.
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The medal ribbon looks like the 1914 Star or the 1914-15 Star.
The 1914 Star was established in April 1917. The 1914-15 Star was established in December 1918. The ribbons are identical but the 1914 Star ribbon had a metal rosette (I don't know if the rosette was introduced after December 1918 to avoid confusion).
William Kennedy would also have been awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal (which were established in July 1919 and September 1919 respectively). These are not shown in the photograph, which suggests it was taken before he received the medals.
NOTE: it would have taken officials quite some time to compile medal rolls and arrange for medals to be struck, have names engraved, and be posted to recipients!
So, a fairly tight date for the photograph can be given. If the medal is the 1914 Star the photo was taken after Spring 1917 and before William received the BWM and VM (probably before the end of 1920). If the ribbon is the 1914-15 Star the photograph was taken in 1920 plus or minus a year.
Philip
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Possibly 4887, Irish Guards. Born Glasnevin, Dublin 1889, father Joseph resident in Roscommon.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007276542%2F02322&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7276542%2F227%2F2322
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/miuk1914a_085193-02327
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On the black and white, the buttons do now look like the GS buttons. The shoulder title could well be IG.
4887 though didn't go overseas until April 1916 so had neither Star and also joined the RAF in 1921 serving to 1927, mother living at Corkseagh, Stokestown nr Roscommon - does that sound like him?
MaxD
Wee clarification on the ribbon - the wearing of the 1914 Star ribbon was authorised in late December 1917 ie later than the establishment of the medal and became readily available in the first months of 1918. The rosette for the 1914 Star was an additional emblem for those who served within range of the enemy's mobile artillery and had to be claimed by relevant Star recipients (it went with the clasp "5th Aug - 22nd Nov 1914" which went on the ribbon when the Star itself was worn)
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Wow.
Thank you all so much for the detailed responses amazing information and knowledge.
His father was Pierce Kennedy and William edward Kennedy was born in south dublin union workhouse like many people of the time.
He married a girl called Margaret Daly in july 1922.
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Yes lots of detail but the wrong bloke! We haven't found him yet!
4887 William Kennedy Irish Guards father was Michael at the Roscommon address in the earlier post and no record of marriage on the later RAF record. He was in India from Jan 1922 to 1926.
What was his mother's name and do you have any other addresses connected with him?
MaxD
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Cheers.
His mothers name was Eliza Kennedy Nee Pomeroy.
He may have lived around Aldborough Square he married a girl from there and his sister lived there too who is my great Grandmother.
He actually married in 1922 and My Great Grandfather who i cut out of the picture with him was a witness at the wedding so maybe this could be a wedding photo as it was common to wear the uniform at the ceremony?
Just found out this info now.
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I asked about the mother and addresses because there is a record which would seem to fit. A William Kennedy joining the army in Dublin as a boy of 14yrs 6 months in Jan 1904. Born in the parish of St James Dublin. Mother Eliza and with the address 19 Aldborough Square in 1919 when discharged. Address on entry was Westburgh (spelling?) St Dublin. Mother's address amended to read Protestant Hospital South Dublin Union in Oct 1914 (sounds like the workhouse again?)
No doubt under gentle persuasion of the recruiter, he joined and served throughout in the West Riding Regiment. Their shoulder titles varied - a simple WR or DofW would sort of fit.
and this William certainly had a 1914 Star. Is the photo definitely this chap?
What do you think?
MaxD
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Bingo. You hit the nail on the head.
His mother was protestant alright, his father originally RC.
Eliza was in and oit of the Workhouse in Jmes St a lot of Her life yes.
His sister lived at 19 Aldborough Square and he may have lived there for a time alright as he ended up marrying a girl from there.
Address on entry maybe Werburgh St, Off Christchurch there.
It all adds up with the info you sourced. Thank you again.
And if you could just confirm to me that was the British Army.
Many thanks again.
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Yes, prior to independence the island of Ireland was all Britain. The regiment's title at that time was the Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) and your man 7686 Private William Kennedy served with them in UK, in India and in France. There are a number of records for him on Ancestry (also on Findmypast) including service and pension records. His medal card can be seen at the National Archives:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5264055 This can be downloaded free at present, you just have to register.
He was in France with 2nd Battalion. He was wounded and taken prisoner during the Battle of Mons at Wasmes on 24 August 1914 just 10 days after arrival in France.. The battle is described starting here:
https://archive.org/details/3edmilitaryopera01edmouoft/page/100/mode/2up?q=wasmes
His POW record is here:
https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/701770/698/21469/ This shows he was first held at Gustrow. The listing is at Parchim on 18 April 1918, he was repatriated in Jan 1919.
MaxD
PS I am not entirely convinced that the picture is him, the shoulder titles don't look right but then they are not very clear. Others may have thoughts on this?
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Well done, Max. I'd discounted that one because the West Riding Regiment didn't seem to fit.
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Brilliant.
The photo is definitely William Kennedy.
I will read through all this information as soon as possible
Thanks
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One of the lads kindly coloured it on the other thread for me looks good
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I agree with Max that the soldier in the photo is in the West Riding Regiment (Duke of Wellington’s) and wearing the ribbon of a 1914 Star. I suspect that photo was taken just after the war when he was released from captivity. That fits with the type of shoulder title, which was changed from WEST.RIDING to the more simple D.W, just after the war.
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Thanks for the reply appreciated.
Might be a silly question but when applying for a clasp and rose in 1932 did the soldier himself have to apply or could a next of kin apply on his behalf?
Still trying to narrow down his death etc..
Kind Regards.
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The shoulder title is too small to be Irish Guards. The foot guards used larger letters and in combination with an icon of regimental insignia. This was a star of the order of St Patrick.
There does appear to be just two letters of the smaller size shown in the photo, which also rules out RE, RA, etc. who also used the larger size letters. Two letter combinations in the small size might be RS (Royal Scots), RH (Black Watch), in brass, and RB, SR, in blackened brass. The latter two are extremely unlikely as they relate to rifle regiments whose members usually (but not in every case) also wore black buttons.