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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Foxhunter on Tuesday 18 August 20 17:59 BST (UK)

Title: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Tuesday 18 August 20 17:59 BST (UK)
Hello, newbie poster here!

I am unable to locate a birth certificate for my great grandmother.

Workhouse records show her born in the St George the Martyr workhouse on 14/9/1898 and baptised on the 17th but I can find no record of the birth on the GRO index.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 19 August 20 08:59 BST (UK)
Could you give her name, please?
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:05 BST (UK)
Annie Fox?
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:18 BST (UK)
Oh, oops.

Scanned the text, thrice.

Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:19 BST (UK)
I haven't checked the workhouse records but was she illegitimate?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:22 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat :)

Is this her?
Annie Fox - parents Edward and Elizabeth, baptised 17th September 1898

She is with Elizabeth in the workhouse in 1899 plus a couple of sightings.

Is there a marriage for Edward and Elizabeth?
Maiden name for her?
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:23 BST (UK)
There might be 2 Annie Fox's, but one appears to have a Mother Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:27 BST (UK)
Yes that’s the one, mother’s maiden name was Mary Elizabeth Cork, I have the marriage certificate, the married in 1885 and had 6 children prior to Annie, including a previous Annie that died in 1898 prior to this birth.
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:27 BST (UK)
I was thinking they were the same person  :-\

The baptism address (with both parents) is 9 Grotto Place.
Just for information - some reading here

http://www.hharp.org/library/evelina/patients/grotto-children.html
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:31 BST (UK)
I found one in the workhouse showing mother Elizabeth with a child Annie, born 14/09/1898  but also showing "absconded" ad I assume child was left behind

I would have thought by 1898  most if not all babies were registered

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:33 BST (UK)
I also have a newspaper article from 1896 where Elizabeth and Edward are charged with child neglect after the older children were found abandoned in a wash house! Elizabeth is described as a drunk that spent her husbands wages on drink as soon as he earned it! They were both sent to prison but I’ve been unable to find a record of that.
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Wednesday 19 August 20 09:39 BST (UK)
I found one in the workhouse showing mother Elizabeth with a child Annie, born 14/09/1898  but also showing "absconded" ad I assume child was left behind

I would have thought by 1898  most if not all babies were registered

Yes it’s strange , the gro were unable to locate a birth certificate, I have no confirmed trace of Annie after that until her marriage in 1919, Elizabeth appears on her own in the 1911 census.
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 19 August 20 10:21 BST (UK)
I wondered if this was Annie in 1911? She is born Southwark which fits.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPP-9JF
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Wednesday 19 August 20 11:08 BST (UK)
Yes I think it may be, I haven’t been able to find a definite link with the people she is there with so cannot be sure.
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 19 August 20 11:30 BST (UK)
What happened to her siblings and parents?

LM
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Wednesday 19 August 20 11:45 BST (UK)
LM
Edward died in 1900, he was living at his sisters address.
Elizabeth appears in 1911 census apart from all of the children, she died in 1914, her daughter Louisa registers the death.
I’ve had difficulty locating the children after the neglect incident.
Robert, appears to be in a children’s home in Cheshire in 1901.
I believe Florence and Joseph are be living with an aunt in 1901.
The first Annie dies a few months before my relative Annie is born, I’ve been unable to locate her in 1901.

Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 19 August 20 11:54 BST (UK)
What a sad family?

LM
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 19 August 20 12:28 BST (UK)
That baptism of Annie at St George the Martyr, 17 Sep 1898, was when she and her mother were still in the workhouse.
It's a P.B., private baptism, as are the other two that day, Edith Mary Stancliffe and William Charles Riseley.

From the workhouse register of births we can see that EM Stancliffe was born same day as Annie Fox, and WC Riseley the next day
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1Y-X92G-X?i=938

Baptized at the workhouse?

GRO birth index, Dec qtr 1898, volume 1d, district St. Saviour Southwark
indexed on page 43 are
Stancliffe, Edith Mary
Risely, William Charles
Dray, Joseph William   
Western, John Charles

Presuming Joseph is the unnamed male Dray born 25 Sep in the workhouse register and JC Western is Weston in that, then perhaps the master of the workhouse registered all of them at the same time?
No names indexed for vol. 1d page 42 that quarter, so hopefully page 43 is the start of a new sub-district. Those births could have been registered 1st or 2nd October.

Or did the registrar come to the workhouse? Elizabeth and Annie Fox left on the 29 Sep, but I think the Stancliffes did as well!
Maybe there was a misunderstanding about the registration? :-\
Title: Re: Annie Fox
Post by: Foxhunter on Thursday 20 August 20 15:25 BST (UK)
Thanks for the assistance, I guess the birth just wasn’t registered.
The workhouse records show her mother Elizabeth absconding on 10/5/1899 and baby Annie being taken to what i believe is champion hill infirmary, does anyone know if they have records that can be accessed as to what may have happened to her afterwards?