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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: isanor on Tuesday 11 August 20 16:41 BST (UK)
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A William Pattison born about 1800 in Dumfriesshire, Scotland was transported to Australia - NSW in 1818. He served 21 years before gaining his Ticket of Leave. In !834 he married Ann McGlaughlin or Kelly in Sydney.
I haven't been able to trace him any further. Ann died in 1842, I think. Wold he have been allowed to leave the country at all and possible return to Scotland?
Does anyone have any idea of where to search next. I am curious about William as he may have been a 4th great-uncle of mine.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Isabel
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Is this his birth? William Pattison, son of Matthew & Mary Little, 6/2/1801, Langholm or Staplegorton
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Hello
Yes, that's my ancestor. Matthew Pattison and Mary Little are my 4 x great grandparents. I just cannot find anything that confirms the William who went to Australia as a convict was my ancestor. All the records I've found do not give his place of birth, only the name and year of birth.
Thanks
Isabel
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The William PATTISON who arrived Sydney per the vessel 'Glory' in September 1818 was serving a Life sentence. Several Tickets of Leave were issued over the years. He would likely be the same chap who received a Conditional Pardon in March 1839. One of the conditions would likely be that he could not return to Britain.
The 1832 and 1936 Tickets of Leave have his native place as London as does his Indent. He was a Baker.
JM
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Hello
Many thanks for the information. I have spent some time searching as many records as I can find but there doesn't seem to be anything later than his marriage in 1834. I cannot find a record of his death in the NSW records. Could he have gone to another state? He just seems to have disappeared.
Thanks for any help anyone can give.
Isabel
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Hi,
Civil registration of bdm events commenced in NSW in 1856.
You note the 1834 marriage .... do you have a copy of the church registry for that. If so, what info on it confirms he is your chap? Does it mention his ship of arrival or his convict number?
You mention the 1834 marriage is your last sighting of him, I think that would be as PATERSON rather than as PATTISON. The was no standard applied to spelling in those times, so there's a deal of variations to strive to sort, but the ship of arrival or his convict number can sometimes be found on official records and really confirms if you have found your ancestor....
In my earlier reply I noted several tickets of Leave in the 1830s for him and his Conditional Pardon of March 1839. In that reply I can see A TYPO .... I have typed 1936 when I should have typed 1836 for one of those Tickets of Leave. .. sorry about that.
I have not found any children to the couple. That is unusual. I will keep looking for them.
You ask about other states... so the colony of Victoria was hived off from the colony of NSW in 1851 and Queensland was hived off in 1859. So bdm events in Vic or Qld are found in NSW until those years.
Six colonies federated into one colony in 1901. That's when the six were then referred to as states.
JM
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Hello
Many thanks for your reply. The NSW Registers of convicts applications to marry, show he applied to marry in 1831 but was refused. A further application in 1834 was allowed. Both state that he was on Glory. He married Ann on 12 August 1834 at St Philips, Sydney (from a transcription on FindMyPast). Both he and Ann were age 34. Ann was on the Edward and sentenced to 7 years. Her Ticket of Leave is dated 1831.
I originally thought Ann died about 1842 but on rechecking I think I got the wrong record. so I do not know her date of death either. She seems to have been born about 188 also in Wicklow, Ireland.
I've had a look at possible death record for William in both Victoria and Queensland. I've found only 1 possible but it doesn't have enough information. Its a death in 1877 in Sydney, registered in St Phillips, which is where Ann and William married. (found in FindMyPast).
Once again, many thanks
Isabel
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Ann's birth year is 100 from her Ticket of Leave.
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Sorry. My fingers keep slipping. should be 1800!
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Hi,
I have some questions... re the burial record for a chap named aa William PATTISON in 1877.
:) what cemetery is noted on that document,
:) what day/month for the burial
:) deceased's usual abode and occupation
:) any other info on that record ... clergy named, other witnesses,
:) what is full reference number ... I can see at least two reference numbers for that name in 1877 in that parish register. One may be duplicate of the other, but it is actually rare for there to be a burial without a formal NSW death cert .... perhaps death is under a different spelling or death occurred outside of Sydney metro area and the civil registration had not been sorted, OR ... death occurred outside of NSW and the body was transferred to NSW for burial OR the St Phillips registry is simply a transmitted entry ... afterall it is Volume 152 ... so it may not be an entry made in the 1877, but at sometime in the 20th century.
JM
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:) NSW State Archives online ... no subscriptions needed to search... :)
There is an 1877 Intestate Estate file for a William PATTISON, for the Gunyerwarialdi district of NSW ... that's hundreds of miles north west of Sydney, a rural area...
JM
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I am sure the following are all for the ONE marriage, but I am typing them up as they show the variations in spelling and mis-reads in the very details that occurred in Sydney NSW records in the penal era, and the need to search thoroughly on all the many variations.
:) :) From an image Convicts Applications to Marry, page 142 permission dated 2 August 1834.
Rev William COWPER. 1834
William PATTISON, aged 34, arrived per Glory, under a Life Sentence, On a Ticket of Leave,
Ann MAGLOGLIN or KELLY, aged 24, arrived per Edward, under a sentence of 7 years, still under a Bond,
:) :) From a transcription at Family Search, being a transcription of a record of a church register -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCT-8NG
William PATTERSON marriage on 12 August 1834, to Ann MCLAUGHLIN or KELLY, registered St Phillips, Sydney NSW.
:) :) From NSW State Archives online index
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convicts-guide (plenty of quality guides there), then to
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convicts-applications-marry
William PATTISON per Edward (the ship of arrival - males) aged 34, under a life sentence, condition Bond,
And
Ann MAGLOGHLIN alias Ann KELLY, per York (the ship of arrival – females) aged 24, sought on 26 July 1834, permission to marry – Revd W COWPER …
NSW Archives : reel 713, fiche 782-785.
:) :) From NSW BDM marriages, https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/family-history-search and
https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/family-history-search/registry-records/early-church-codes
Early Church Records :
William PATTERSON, and Ann KELLY, 1834, Volume 18, line 1197, (1197V1834119718) ‘CA’
JM
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NSW Government Gazette 23 November 1877 page 4549
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/225827045
In the Supreme Court of NSW
Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction
In the estates of ... William Pattison, late of Warialdi; ...
.... Pursuant to the Acts of 11 Vic No. 24 and ... .... claim upon the estate or estates of the abovenamed deceased persons .... or ... excluded from all benefit ....
Curator of Intestate Estates
Supreme Court House
21st November 1877.
JM
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NSW Convict Records at Ancestry as part of a current commercial relationship with the NSW State Archives.
Title: Wives and Families of Convicts on Bounty Ships, 1837-1843; Volume: 4/4492
From the image, my transcription and note :
Approval no. 32, by Secretary of State, in Despatch Date 2 November 1839 (JM notes this ... so in the government despatch from England to NSW of that date).
PATTISON William, per Glory, of 1818, from Middlesex GD (Gaol Delivery) tried 29 October 1817, Life sentence.
Here is link to many NSW passenger lists/guides etc.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/immigration-and-shipping
and it mentions https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/index-bounty-immigrants-1828-42
which in turn leads to
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1542665?collectionNameFilter=false
JM
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WARNING, I am typing up a tragic outcome for a William PATTISON.
1877 Coroners Inquests and Magisterial Inquiries
Date of Hearing
29 May, 1877 at Gunyerwarialdi
Deceased named William PATTISON
Finding dated 15 June 1877, by M Holmes.
Outcome: Death from the effects of Poison, Self Administered.
:'( :'(
JM
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From the NSW Conditional Pardon: (40/28)
Condition : Provided Always, and on Condition, that the said William Pattison continue to reside within the limits of this Government for and during the space of the original Sentence or Order of Transportation, Otherwise the said William Pattison shall be subject to all the Pains and Penalties ....
Signed off by Geo Gipps, the NSW Governor on 28 February 1839.
William PATTISON,
:) per the Glory (Pounder as Master), in 1818
:) Native of London, a Baker by Trade
:) Life Sentence, born 1800
five feet seven inches tall, Fair, Ruddy complexion, Brown Hair, Hazel eyes, Hairy Arms.
Re signed off Second Day of May 1840 by Geo Gipps, and entered upon record at pages 491/492 Register 7, on 5th May 1840 by Deas Thomson
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/thomson-sir-edward-deas-2732
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/gipps-sir-george-2098
JM
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From the 1861 NSW Electoral Roll for The Gwydir (Votes and Proceedings NSW Legislative Assembly 1861-1862 Vol 1, pages 762-765).
Christian and Surname : Pattison, William
Residence : Gurley
Qualification Claimed : Six months resident
Where Situate or Arising : Bingara
I think I have posted everything that my ancient retired living relatives have found for you. They include retired NSW State Archives Archivists, retired Clergy and retired NSW BDM senior officers. They are all 'confined to barracks' during covid19 due to their esteemed age etc, the home is on a farm in the New England district of NSW ... so they know the localities that are mentioned in my posts. :)
JM
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Good morning
Many thanks for the emails with several references. I shall work my way through them in the next few days. It is looking increasingly likely that this William Pattison isn't my ancestor.
I'll post again when I've had a chance to check everything you've given.
Thank you.
Isabel
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Hello JM
I have now had a chance to follow up the various references to different websites that you have suggested.
When I first started this research I was attempting to find out if the William Pattison in my Family Tree was the same one that was transported to Australia on the Glory. Along the way I have learned a great deal about the transportation of convicts and what may have happened to them. Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that the William who went to Australia is probably not my ancestor. Auatralian records seem to indicate he was born in London whereas my ancestor was born in Scotland.
I have found several records of a birth for a William Pattison about 1800 so it could be one of them but I have not found a birth for a William in London. But I know that back then, not everyone who was born was baptised so there may not be any record of his birth. Nor have I found any further trace of what happened to my William.
I shall now keep hold of my research and add it to the growing pile of "brick walls" in the hope that maybe one day I might come across the bit of information which will tell me definitely who William was.
I would like to say thank you for your help and that of your "ancient retired living relatives" as you described them, for the help you have all given. I too have been confined to home during the current Covid pandemic for medical reasons so have been able to devote a lot of time to family tree research.
So for now I will leave things as they are and pick up this again at some future date. Who knows what I will find.
Take care all and stay safe.
Isabel
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There is a William Pattison, born Scotland 1801 in Kalamazoo, Michigan in the 1870 census.
A grave plot in Kalamazoo. Do you recognise any names?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/30712633/william-pattison
Checking SP, a James Pattison married an Agnes Laidlaw, 1825, Jedburgh
The only death in Scotland that fits with his age was in 1882, Anstruther. Opposite end of the country from Dumfries but not impossible.
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May I please share here the very special message from my relatives who help, not just on this thread, but on many of my posts on many threads.
"It is our privilege to share our collective pool of knowledge, and our delight that you have chosen to publicly thank us."
And from me, 'always ask the question, always record both the exact question and the answer/s, and always recognise that the answer needs to be considered in its own context ... time, meaning, actual usage - so ask the question and listen carefully to the answer'.
May I too thank you for the opportunity to help, afterall, being able to eliminate candidates means you are 'that much' closer to finding the person. ;D
JM
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Good afternoon Klouman
Many thanks for the gravestone pictures. I don't recognise any of the names and dates. I'll make a note of what information you have given me and add it to the file on this ancestor in the hope that maybe one day it might mean something.
Kind regards
Isabel
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Hello again to Klouman
I have just checked the Statutory death on scotlandspeople of William Pattison in Anstruther, 1882, and this is not my ancestor. Thanks again
Isabel
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Hello all
Further to my previous posts I have found a record in FindMyPast - England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment 1770 -1935 which states that the William Pattison I have been researching was born in the Marylebone workhouse. So I think I can say that this William is probably not my ancestor. Now I need to find out what did happen to the William in my tree.
Thanks to all.
Isabel