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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: taffy64 on Saturday 08 August 20 15:27 BST (UK)

Title: William John Harris missing records
Post by: taffy64 on Saturday 08 August 20 15:27 BST (UK)
seek help with finding service record and or medal entitlement with Great grandfathers brothers military history.

William John Harris is believed to have served in the Army Service Corps....there is a photo of him in the uniform and he did serve during WW1. he was from Morriston Glam, Wales. He had a brother Philip. In 1911 census both are with mother is Winefred age 45. William is 21.
both lads worked underground.
He definitely served in WW1.....for how long we don't know, what he did or where served is known either.
when he left military he stayed in London area and was a tram conductor.  his mind was believed to be  affected. early twenties he went home to Merthyr, Wales, to stay with brother. then go to visit relatives in Swansea area (mumbles) where he then committed suicide, leaving a letter.
Family myth is that he was sacked from tram job following argument with female passenger concerning the war.
I am going around in circles, cant find anything.....but acknowledge that many of you are far more experienced than I in finding info.

any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 08 August 20 16:47 BST (UK)
Did you know that some 60% of service records were lost to bombing in WW2 so the odds are always against finding records that can identify an individual.  Medal records show possibilities with variants of the name but these have no identifying detail. 

Have you sought out 1918 absent voters list for the place he was living?  Only some are on line, none for Wales that I can see.  These should give his number and/or unit.

MaxD
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: taffy64 on Sunday 09 August 20 10:47 BST (UK)
Had a look at absent voters 1918, unless I'm doing something wrong...I can't find anything.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 09 August 20 11:10 BST (UK)
In 1911 census both are with mother is Winefred age 45. William is 21.
both lads worked underground.

Where are they living.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 09 August 20 11:44 BST (UK)
Quote
William John Harris is believed to have served in the Army Service Corps....there is a photo of him in the uniform

Can you post the photo?
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: taffy64 on Sunday 09 August 20 11:53 BST (UK)
Living...1911...at
32 cross st, Penywern, Dowlais. Which is in/near Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: taffy64 on Sunday 09 August 20 12:16 BST (UK)
My ability/knowledge of navigating through the various military sites/pages is poor...(going bald pulling out hair).
William John Harris' dad was deceased
So his next of kin would likely be his mother, Winefred.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 09 August 20 12:20 BST (UK)
If you have only been looking on line for the relevant AVL then you haven't done enough.  As I advised in the PM go to the relevant county record office.  If he isn't there then he may have ben at home at the time of the census, he may not have served overseas, his records may be among the 60% lost in WW2.

MaxD
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 09 August 20 14:21 BST (UK)
Perhaps worth noting that Winefred used the spelling Harries rather than Harris.
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 09 August 20 19:18 BST (UK)
Following up ShaunJ's clue, leads to a possible.  M2/148079 Private William John Harries Army Service Corps. Medal card http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2559570

Silver War Badge - discharged sick 13 Sep 1916 - card not found

BUT also William J Harries M2/265246 ASC

Neither so far identifiable to place/birth etc.

MaxD
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 09 August 20 21:09 BST (UK)
Running with the Harries idea
Daily Herald, 21 April 1927, ocr text with gueses
REQUEST TO CORONER Things have been very hard against me. I have had bad luck(?), wrote William John Harries, a London tram conductor, before committing suicide at Mumbles, Swansea. At the inquest yesterday the coroner said Harries lied written to him that (he) should write to the manager of the company and ascertain why he had been dismissed... seemed to think that someone had a grudge against him. A verdict of Suicide was returned

Maybe
HARRIS, WILLIAM  JOHN     
Age at Death (in years):  36 
GRO Reference: 1927  J Quarter in GOWER  Volume 11A  Page 1048
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 09 August 20 21:14 BST (UK)
More newspaper coverage in April 1927 as Harris

The body of William John Harris was recovered from the sea at the Mumbles yesterday. Harris, who was about 35 years of age, is believed have been a native of Dowlais, but he had been staying at Morriston, Swansea, during the past week.

MUMBLES MYSTERY. FRESH CLUE FOUND BY THE POLICE.
In connection with the mysterious drowning of a Dowlais man, William John Harris, at Bracelet Bay, Mumbles...
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: taffy64 on Monday 10 August 20 06:22 BST (UK)
Running with the Harries idea
Daily Herald, 21 April 1927, ocr text with gueses
REQUEST TO CORONER Things have been very hard against me. I have had bad luck(?), wrote William John Harries, a London tram conductor, before committing suicide at Mumbles, Swansea. At the inquest yesterday the coroner said Harries lied written to him that (he) should write to the manager of the company and ascertain why he had been dismissed... seemed to think that someone had a grudge against him. A verdict of Suicide was returned

Maybe
HARRIS, WILLIAM  JOHN     
Age at Death (in years):  36 
GRO Reference: 1927  J Quarter in GOWER  Volume 11A  Page 1048

This is  my relative .
Title: Re: William John Harris missing records
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 10 August 20 16:22 BST (UK)
Quote
Following up ShaunJ's clue, leads to a possible.  M2/148079 Private William John Harries Army Service Corps. Medal card http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2559570

Silver War Badge - discharged sick 13 Sep 1916 - card not found

BUT also William J Harries M2/265246 ASC

Neither so far identifiable to place/birth etc

There is a 1919 army medical record for a J Harries #265246 in ASC MT.  Age 34 so we can rule out that one.

Army papers have survived for the other one (#148079) https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/miuk1914a_084701-01486
and they show that he was aged 20 on enlisting in 1915 and that his mother was Elizabeth. So we can rule him out too.