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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: GaryTJ on Wednesday 29 July 20 23:41 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
I am currently researching my pedigree surname Cairney. This name has changed over a period of time and has been variously spelt Cairney/Cairnie/Carney and there has even been a spelling Cerney (1901 Scottish/1911 Irish census').
My 2 x great grandfather Henry Cairney was born (illigetimately) to Mary Carnie in Kilwinning, Ayrshire on 23rd October 1868.
He met my 2 x great grandmother Mary Somerville and according to the birth certificates of some of their children Mary and Henry married in Belfast on the 30th December 1890 - I have yet to find proof of this marriage. Mary was born in Anahilt, County Down on 15 June 1872. And after their marriage they were living in Old Monkland.
As far as I know they only had 4 children - Henry, Mary, Margaret and James.
I have the births of 2 of these children.
James was born in Coatbridge on the 28th August 1900 and Margaret was born in Holytown on the 8th October 1898.
I know from the 1901 Scottish Census that Henry (juniors) birth would be circa 1893 and Mary (juniors) birth is circa 1896.
However, I have searched high and low for Henry's birth, Mary's birth and Henry (seniors) and Mary (seniors) marriage registration (which was apparently in Belfast) and have been unsuccessful. I have tried Scotland's People, Ancestry, Findmypast, IrishGeneology and so on and so forth. I am pretty much at my wits end and wondered if anyone could help please?
In addition to this, Henry (senior) died in an Ironworks accident 4th September 1902 in Langloan. At some point Mary and her 4 children then moved to Belfast and I do know that although the children's surname remained as Carney, at some point Mary Cairney (nee Somerville) must have remarried as she became know as Mary Cotter. And according to the 1911 Irish census she and her husband Robert Cotter had been married 7 years.
I have traced the Cotter's but again I cannot find a Cotter/Cairney or even a Cotter/Sommerville marriage registration.
I am finding this all very fustrating and I am hoping maybe a fresh set of eyes might help!!
May thanks
Gary
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I’m not sure if you have this?
Henry Kearney 21 Kilwinning, Ayr. General Labourer
Spouse's name : Mary Kearney 19 Ballyhensh, Co Down
1891 = 20 Quarry Row, Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Colin
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CEARNEY MARY 1896 Holytown
Also listed as below on SP.
KEARNEY MARY 1896 Holytown
Colin
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CEARNEY HENDRY 1893 Coatbridge or Old Monkland
Colin
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I’m not sure if you have this?
Henry Kearney 21 Kilwinning, Ayr. General Labourer
Spouse's name : Mary Kearney 19 Ballyhensh, Co Down
1891 = 20 Quarry Row, Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Colin
Hi Colin
Thank you!!!!!
I knew I needed some fresh eyes on this although I would never have thought with those spellings.
I have now found, thanks to you, Henry and Marys birth, wow! You have no idea how many years I have been looking for those. I also feel somewhat stupid for not finding them before.
So I plugged those birth details into Scotlands People and hey presto!
Can I just ask what platform did you use for the marriage, is it Scotlands People? I am trying those details in Scotlands People but I am not finding it yet!
Thank you again Colin, I appreciate your help.
Regards
Gary
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Sorry Colin. Just realised that wasnt the marriage you posted but the 1891 Census a year after the marriage date.
I still didnt have this either so thanks so much for the extra info!!
I just have to find the Cairney/Somerville and Cairney/Cotter marriage now.
Would anyone have any idea how I could go about finding where Henry(senior) might be buried? Like previously posted he died 4th September 1902 and it was due to an Ironworks accident at Langloan. I would love to be able to find where he might be buried. Whilst I suspect there will probably be no grave marker it would be amazing if there was!!
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I searched SP for both marriages but as you know nothing there.
As they most likely married in Belfast you could try Belfast Council.
https://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/births-deaths-and-ceremonies/burial-records/other-historical-records#337-1
Colin
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I searched SP for both marriages but as you know nothing there.
As they most likely married in Belfast you could try Belfast Council.
https://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/births-deaths-and-ceremonies/burial-records/other-historical-records#337-1
Colin
Thanks Colin.
I will give this another go but I have tried. Maybe I have missed a spelling variation.
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I searched SP for both marriages but as you know nothing there.
As they most likely married in Belfast you could try Belfast Council.
https://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/births-deaths-and-ceremonies/burial-records/other-historical-records#337-1
Colin
Thanks Colin.
I will give this another go but I have tried. Maybe I have missed a spelling variation.
No luck for either marriage in SP and the GRO NI. I'm all out for ideas for these two marriages.
I dont understand how the first marriage of Mary Somerville and Henry Cairney can be so specific in terms of date and place yet I cannot find it. And in 1911 Mary was married to Robert Cotter for 7 years yet I cannot find that one either!
Incredibly frustrating!!!!
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Henry Cairney who died in 1902 was interred in Common Ground at Old Monkland cemetery in Coatbridge on February 6th 1902.
However, he was subsequently reinterred in another grave on 9th February. Here are the details. It may be worth finding out who Joseph Cairney was!
Have you checked Henry's death certificate for parentage and a RCE?
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Henry Cairney who died in 1902 was interred in Common Ground at Old Monkland cemetery in Coatbridge on February 6th 1902.
However, he was subsequently reinterred in another grave on 9th February. Here are the details. It may be worth finding out who Joseph Cairney was!
Have you checked Henry's death certificate for parentage and a RCE?
Lodger, thank you very much for this!
Pardon my ignorance but was does RCE mean?
I can explain pretty much all those names. Joseph Cairney born 1844 to Peter Cairnie and Lucinda Burns is likely Henry's uncle. A brother of Henry's mother, Mary Cairnie. Mary had Henry illigimately in 1868 but by 1870 she married into the McAloon family. John McAloon will most likely be Henry's step father. I cant quite make out the other first names but if they are McAloons then they are Henry's step family for sure. How amazing, thank you for this!! Can I just ask where exactly is this cemetery, I am wondering if there is a headstone. I live in Belfast so I cant readily get to the gravestone so IF there is a headstone and anyone is in the area I would be very appreciative of a picture!!
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RCE = Register of Corrected Entries. If Henry was killed in a works accident a report would have been sent to the Procurator fiscal, he would examine that report and determine whether it should be passed to the police for further investigation. There will be a note in the left-hand margin of Henry's death certificate and a copy of the entry will be available to view on Scotlandspeople (and download) without an extra charge.
Old Monkland cemetery in in Coatbridge, not too far from me really, if it EVER stops raining I will go and have a look.
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RCE = Register of Corrected Entries. If Henry was killed in a works accident a report would have been sent to the Procurator fiscal, he would examine that report and determine whether it should be passed to the police for further investigation. There will be a note in the left-hand margin of Henry's death certificate and a copy of the entry will be available to view on Scotlandspeople (and download) without an extra charge.
Old Monkland cemetery in in Coatbridge, not too far from me really, if it EVER stops raining I will go and have a look.
Fantastic. Thank you so much Lodger, I know what you mean about rain. It's the same here in Belfast.
I looked at the very poor writing in the death certificate and the RCE and could just make out the Fiscal part. So I googled that and found that there is indeed an entry for Henry.....
http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/details.aspx?reference=SC35%2f4%2f2&st=1&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=Henry+Cairney&ko=a&r=&ro=s&df=1902&dt=1904&di=y
However, it seems I will have to get a genealogist to look for me as you cant do it online. So I guess I will have to be a little more patient however thank you again as I would never have known about this had it not been for your help!!!
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Why can't you do it online? It will be attached to his death certificate, there will be a link at the top of the page.
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Why can't you do it online? It will be attached to his death certificate, there will be a link at the top of the page.
Hi Lodger
I can see the RCE although the writing is hard to read.
I am talking about the Fatal Accident Inquiry that the Procurator Fiscal had written held in the National Records of Scotland which the RCE points too
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It will probably just tell you that he died as the result of an accident at work, or perhaps a heart attack or something like that.
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It will probably just tell you that he died as the result of an accident at work, or perhaps a heart attack or something like that.
Ah, OK, so probably nothing much more of value then. Thanks for helping me, I appreciate your expertise.
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I know it seems unlikely, but is it conceivable that Mary had married someone else, and they had separated but not divorced so she just made out that she was married to Henry and then Robert but never actually did the deed because it would have been bigamy?
How do you know, by the way, that Mary was the one born on 15 June 1872? (Her birth certificate says Ballycreen, which is very close to Anahilt.)
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I know it seems unlikely, but is it conceivable that Mary had married someone else, and they had separated but not divorced so she just made out that she was married to Henry and then Robert but never actually did the deed because it would have been bigamy?
How do you know, by the way, that Mary was the one born on 15 June 1872? (Her birth certificate says Ballycreen, which is very close to Anahilt.)
Hi Forfarian
I am very open to other avenues in terms of these marriages. Like you say, although unlikely it is possible.....until I see something concrete I guess I have been going with convention.
In terms of having the right Mary Somerville; it seems to be the best fit. In terms of age, location and I know when Mary moved back to Ireland sometime between 1902 when Henry died and 1911 when I see her next on the Irish Census, one of her children stayed with the Somerville family in Ballynahinch (as the family's niece), just up the road from Anahilt in the townland of Ballycreen.
Although not impossible it seems almost inconcieveable that it is anyone else. I am almost certain I have the right Mary. My grandfather always spoke to my mother about staying with the Somerville family in Ballynahinch as an evacuee during the war.
My grandfather was Mary's grandson.
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Hi I was hoping and would be grateful if someone was in Old Monkland Cemetery anytime soon, if they could have a look for my great great grandfathers grave and take a snap of the grave (whether it has a grave marker or not) please?
One kind indivdual on this thread has already kindly located the grave on paper (attached).
I would do it except I am in Belfast and wont be able to get to the Cemetery anytime soon.
Many thanks
Gary
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So I thought I'd post an update; I have now found Mary Somerville/Cairneys second marriage.
According to the 1911 Irish Census she had been married to Robert Cotter for 7 years but I could never find the marriage.
I searched in the newspaper archive and discovered why, initially, I couldn't locate the marriage.
It seems that Mr Cotter was already married when he married Mary Cairney.
He married a Mary Agnes Williamson in the late 1800s. However according to newspaper reports she was still alive when he remarried Mary Sommerville in Nov 1904. According to one report he was violent to his first wife.
Mary Sommerville married using Sommerville, her maiden surname, and he used the alias Robert Leathem!
Subsequently after marrying in Belfast he was back in Scotland and was arrested in Johnstone. There was a court case (I hope to get access to that in PRONI at some point), and he was found guilty in 1906 of bigamy and was given 4 months in prison! They must have stayed together as she stayed a Cotter and they both died in Belfast whilst living at the same address.
I havent managed to get Mary Sommervilles first marriage to Henry Cairney which I am disappointed by.
According to their 4 childrens birth registrations they married in Belfast 30th December 1890. I have had the GRO in Belfast do a search on and around that date without success and I have also personally tried irishgeneology.ie again without success. Maybe they just didn't get married which would explain Marys use of her maiden name in the second marriage.
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I'm curious to know which John McAloon did she marry? I am a descendant of the McAloons from Coatbridge and Old Monkland areas, but didn't know about this marriage.
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I'm curious to know which John McAloon did she marry? I am a descendant of the McAloons from Coatbridge and Old Monkland areas, but didn't know about this marriage.
Hi Karen,
Tieing in with your other post:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859579.msg7284833 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859579.msg7284833)
SP has a death record for John McAloon in 1903, mother's maiden name MARTIN 652/2 227 so could be a link up for you all here.
Also worth checking out an SP marriage registration in 1870 RD Irvine 595/ 20
John MCALOON and Mary CAIRNIE
Good luck
Duncan
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Wondering if any of you fine people could advise me how to find the marriage of my great great grandfather Henry Cairney and great great grandmother Mary Somervile.
Henry was from Kilwinning, Scotland and Mary was from Co. Down more specifically Anahilt.
Mary was 18 when she married Henry and this was her first marriage. She "married" again in 1904 after Henry died in a terrible ironworks accident in Gartsherrie, Scotland. Her second marriage was to a bigamist, Robert Cotter in Belfast.
Back to the marriage I am trying to find....Henry apparently married Mary in Belfast, December 1890.
I ha vent managed to get Mary Sommervilles first marriage to Henry Cairney which I am disappointed by.
According their childrens (4 children) birth registrations, Henry and Mary married in Belfast 30th December 1890.
I have had the GRO in Belfast do a search in and around that date without success and I have also personally tried irishgeneology.ie again without success. Maybe they just didn't get married which would explain Marys use of her maiden name in the second marriage?
Would be very grateful for any assistance!
Ps
Henry was 22 years old at the time of marriage. His father was unknown as he was illegitimate. But his mother was called Mary Carnie. His grandfather was Peter Cairnie.
Mary was 18 years old at the time of their marriage. Her father was called John Somerville and her mother was Mary Shaw.
Mary and Henry were in Scotland in the 1891 Scottish Census. And their son, Henry, my great-grandfather was born in 1893 in Scotland.
Finally, the surname has been variously spelt as: Carney, Cairney, Kerney, Carnie, Cerney and Cairnie.
Thank you all!