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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: melba_schmelba on Sunday 26 July 20 22:01 BST (UK)
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I have found a marriage that took place at St. Cuthbert's, Edinburgh in 1823, but for all the couples on the page, there are no witnesses listed, and it just says "have been three times proclaimed in order to marriage in the Parish Church of St. Cuthberts and no objections have been offered" and at the top it states "Register of Proclamations". Is there a separate register for St. Cuthberts, or is this all there is?
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That will be it, I'm afraid. What you find in marriage registers varies. Witnesses to marriages are not often recorded.
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That will be it, I'm afraid. What you find in marriage registers varies. Witnesses to marriages are not often recorded.
Oh, that's a shame, thanks G2. We are a bit spoilt in England from the late 18th century on.
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Just to expand a little on GR2's reply.
Pre 1855 when it became a legal requirement to register a birth, death or marriage in Scotland the information is somewhat sketchy. It may not even be the actual date the marriage took place in some instances. Also no parents are listed although if you are lucky you may get the bride's father's name.
Dorrie
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I should have added that after 1855 you get the full details including mother's maiden name and whether the parents are living or deceased on a marriage certificate. The same applies to a death.
On a birth certificate you usually get the date of the parents marriage too.
Happy hunting,
Dorrie
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In the 1820s in Scotland they probably didn’t marry in church. That’s a comparatively recent custom. They probably married at the bride’s home or in the Manse (the Minister’s House).
Some information here:
https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
“In Scotland, regular marriages did not have to take place within a church building; indeed, they were more likely to take place in private homes.”
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I should have added that after 1855 you get the full details including mother's maiden name and whether the parents are living or deceased on a marriage certificate. The same applies to a death.
On a birth certificate you usually get the date of the parents marriage too.
Happy hunting,
Dorrie
Thanks Dorrie, yes I have seen some post 1855 marriage records that then put the English ones to shame! I do wonder if most people knew their mother's maiden names in those days, although I know there was the practice in Scotland for woman to be buried and make wills with their maiden names, but I don't know when that stopped?
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In the 1820s in Scotland they probably didn’t marry in church. That’s a comparatively recent custom. They probably married at the bride’s home or in the Manse (the Minister’s House).
Some information here:
https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
“In Scotland, regular marriages did not have to take place within a church building; indeed, they were more likely to take place in private homes.”
Thanks Elwyn, I was aware that people could do that, but I didn't realise it was more common not to marry in church, than in one.
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It is still legal in Scotland for a woman to keep using her maiden name. If you are looking at the index on scotlandspeople for the death of a married woman it is listed under her married name and her maiden name but with the same reference number.
An example of this is my mum who died in 2010. If you enter Doris Small (her married name) it comes up as reference 731/101 but if you enter Doris Patrick (her maiden name) it comes up with the same reference.
The information given on a marriage/death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant especially way back in the late 1800's.
I am not sure if or when the practice of marrying in the Manse or a private home stopped in Scotland. I have a marriage as late as 1941 taking place in the manse. I believe it is now up to the individual minister of registrar to decide if the intended place of marriage is suitable. Lots of weddings now take place in hotels.
Dorrie
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I am not sure if or when the practice of marrying in the Manse or a private home stopped in Scotland.
I was the bridesmaid at a wedding ceremony in a private home in 1978.
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It is still legal in Scotland for a woman to keep using her maiden name. If you are looking at the index on scotlandspeople for the death of a married woman it is listed under her married name and her maiden name but with the same reference number.
An example of this is my mum who died in 2010. If you enter Doris Small (her married name) it comes up as reference 731/101 but if you enter Doris Patrick (her maiden name) it comes up with the same reference.
The information given on a marriage/death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant especially way back in the late 1800's.
I am not sure if or when the practice of marrying in the Manse or a private home stopped in Scotland. I have a marriage as late as 1941 taking place in the manse. I believe it is now up to the individual minister of registrar to decide if the intended place of marriage is suitable. Lots of weddings now take place in hotels.
Dorrie
Thanks Dorrie, I hadn't realised the use of the maiden name was still common practice. Do we know why or when or if England and Scotland diverged in this practice? Did England ever habitually refer to spouses under their maiden names?
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I am not sure if or when the practice of marrying in the Manse or a private home stopped in Scotland.
I was the bridesmaid at a wedding ceremony in a private home in 1978.
Interesting to know, I think because of Covid, England is considering also relaxing the rules!
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I think the law about marriage in England usually required the location to be licensed or approved for marriages (churches, register offices etc). Scotland never required that. The person conducting the marriage had to be approved (if that's the best term) but no restriction on location. So you could marry almost anywhere. A blacksmiths shop in Gretna Green for example.
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Marriage in the Church of Scotland is not a sacrament but a contract, the Anglicans have given it a significance which was lacking in the early Protestant churches!
Skoosh.
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I think the law about marriage in England usually required the location to be licensed or approved for marriages (churches, register offices etc). Scotland never required that. The person conducting the marriage had to be approved (if that's the best term) but no restriction on location. So you could marry almost anywhere. A blacksmiths shop in Gretna Green for example.
I am not even sure of that. If you were married by a religious ceremony the officiating clergyman had to be approved or licensed or whatever, but you could marry without benefit of clergy by declaring yourselves to be married in front of witnesses. AIUI that is the basis of Border weddings - the legal element was the declaration before witnesses and the blacksmith or whoever it was was just providing a bit of ceremonial.
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My 6x Scottish grandparents were married irregularly but eventually in 1759 went to a church to be married.
The Doddington Church record reads:
'Alexander Greig and Helen Aitchinson, irregularly married, were rebuked and declared married persons and gave to the poor' The amount given to the poor was recorded as one shilling and sixpence.
The irregular marriage required two witnesses and was done verbally. It was usually a Blacksmith and his assistant or wife, as the witnesses had to be Scottish citizens, and only Scottish citizens could be Blacksmiths as they could make weapons of war, swords, shoe horses, etc.
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I think this has been mentioned before on other threads but this is a good potted account of birth, marriage and death in Scotland
https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/introduction/
(use side panel to step through)