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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: cvbob1947 on Sunday 26 July 20 00:17 BST (UK)

Title: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Sunday 26 July 20 00:17 BST (UK)
Looking to find a copy of his application.  Trying to trace line back but conflicting info regarding his birthplace and birthdate. 
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 26 July 20 07:16 BST (UK)
An indication of timescale would help - 1800's, 1900's  :-\ 
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Sunday 26 July 20 16:55 BST (UK)
He would have signed up around 1850, perhaps in Greenwich as he is there in the 1851 census.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 26 July 20 17:03 BST (UK)
For others:

HO107/1589 folio 438, page 18 - Woolwich Arsenal - Royal Sappers & Miners' Barracks

Aged 22, born Spofforth, Stonecutter

Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Sunday 26 July 20 17:38 BST (UK)
Thank you but already have that ( along with all family in Canada of which there are many ).  However I have been unable to find confirmation of that birth, so that is why I am looking for his application form.  I assume they have/had one as it seems most army type applications do.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 26 July 20 17:41 BST (UK)
Sorry, I personally have no military knowledge. Hopefully someone else will take this up.

Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Monday 27 July 20 00:23 BST (UK)
Thanks BumbleB..……..been asking around for a few weeks now and no luck.  Stay safe.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: MaxD on Monday 27 July 20 09:28 BST (UK)
There don't appear to be any surviving records for him.  However, even if there was a record, it would not have a date of birth.  As late as the Great War, the army recorded the age a man said he was when he joined up, often just the years.  His computed age of 29 means he was born before compulsory registration in 1837.
Parish registers sometimes have birth dates in the baptismal record.

MaxD
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 27 July 20 11:11 BST (UK)
Does John get married?  Probability/possibility that his father is named, so that gives a second clue.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Monday 27 July 20 23:56 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion, but I have that information.  I need more proof and hence need to find the original application forms.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 28 July 20 09:07 BST (UK)
You may wish to read the National Archives guidance on soldiers before 1913.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-up-to-1913/
Note particularly Attestation records were created but relatively few survive and those that do tend to be found only among the papers of those discharged to pensions.
Presumably you have subscriptions to Ancestry and Findmypast (which have been searched) and perhaps other family history sites?

MaxD
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 28 July 20 15:00 BST (UK)
John Scales appears in the 1851 census and thus shows up in the Army Worldwide database for 1851.  He does not show up in 1861 which suggests he did not serve to pension.  From the guide In general, if a soldier died in service or/and did not receive an army pension it is much less likely there will be any detailed record of his service – muster rolls and pay lists may be all that survive.

The attached is a clip from the discharge papers of  man who attested in 1848 and wss discharged, with a pension due to sickness, in 1849.  There is, as you see, no date of birth given, just the age he stated on attestation.

MaxD
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: cvbob1947 on Tuesday 28 July 20 19:30 BST (UK)
Thank you for your reply.  He does not show up in later census as he moved to British Columbia, Canada where he has many, many children, grand children, etc. 
He was given 2 large parcels of land in what is now Sechelt located ( via BC Ferry ride ) north of Vancouver.  I have a fairly detailed tree for his family, and I have been able to trace his spouse's family as well.
From the marriage record his father was also John, but no record of his birth as noted in the census.
Thanks again for the other information, I will keep searching and hope that one day I am successful.
Kind Regards, Bob Scales in the Comox Valley on Vancouver Island.
Title: Re: Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 28 July 20 20:01 BST (UK)
Good luck!
MaxD