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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Meelystar on Monday 20 July 20 23:28 BST (UK)
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Can anyone translate?
I am looking for the baptism of John Mooney have I got the right one ???
I honestly haven’t got a clue
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Oops sorry it’s big. Can’t make it smaller as I only have my phone.
Looking for the baptism of John Mooney at St Michaels Limerick circa 1798.
Handicapped by a lack of knowledge of Catholic baptisms, lack of knowledge of the Latin Language, lack of the skill at Reading old writing. Sure you get the picture ;)
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Big is good.
As I read it, this is a Baptism for an Annam (ie Ann) Moroney, daughter of John Moroney and Jane (whose surname isn't clear but could be Maloney?).
If you have more candidates, look for the word after Item Bap: to begin with the letter J as seen here in the last word of line 1 and the word after the ampersand in line 2.
It will be a longer word than you expect - Johannem or Joannem is the Latin.
Post the clip if at all unsure.
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Thanks, that is helpful.
What about this one?
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The best I can say with respect to this one is a heavily qualified maybe.
The child's forename could be Joannem = John (male).
However a female child named Joan or Joanna would be Johannam/Joannam. The writing is so messy it's hard to be sure which we have here. Looking at Item, Joannem is more likely.
The heavily contracted word after the child's forename may give a clue to gender but I don't know what the word is meant to be.
The father's forename is probably Guliellmo, which is Latin for William. (The case ending here may or may not be strictly correct. Normally it is genitive, which would be Guliellmi.)
I really cannot be sure of anything about the father's suranme. I wouldn't have thought of Mooney as a possibility, but it's so messy...
The mother is something like Brigida/Birgida Lyne? (Again it's not the genitive case ending.)
Do you know that the right record is on this page but can't identify it, or are we searching from scratch? Is the register indexed?
I am away from the computer for some hours now, but that will give others a chance to offer an opinion.
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Thanks, yes I wasn’t convinced on Mooney either but it’s very lazy writing.
No starting from scratch. I cannot see that the registers of St Michaels are indexed but I may be wrong.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0895
He is born abt 1798 in all censuses apart from 1861 when it is 1801. 1797/8 according to his military record which Shaun found on this thread. This is what confirms his place of birth.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816658.msg6996784
I have looked through the baptisms from 1795-1801 and I pulled out a few possibilities, the ones I’ve posted seemed the most likely to me. However 2-4 records on each page are pretty much illegible ::)
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I can't add much to horselydown's reply #4 except:
1. The word after Lyne might be the residence of the family. I'm only saying that because it's a piece of information I'd expect to be included in a baptism register. Other information sometimes included were maiden surname of mother and whether parents were married (or not).
2. The sponsors on bottom line might be Joannis M.....y and Anna Kennedy. Male sponsor's surname may or may not be same as the father's surname, whatever that is.
When there were 2 sponsors the male's name was first. Occasionally there was only 1 sponsor e.g. if only 1 parent was R.C. or if baby was illegitimate, when there might have been a sponsor from the mother's side only.
Irish R.C. registers are indexed on FindMyPast.
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Thanks. I’m really not sure it’s the right record at all. I have a habit of missing things when I look through ::)
I assumed the names at the end were the sponsors. Off to have a look at findmypast now thanks for the tip.
Edit not seeing anything on findmypast
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I've just noticed that if the witness name is Kennedy (as it appears to be), then the father's surname is Kenny or Kinny. It's the same capital.
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Well that’s irritating as that one looked the most plausible to me ::)
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Did R.C. Baptisms normally happen soon after the birth? I was thinking that they would. Wondering if I should look later but equally that I’ve missed it somehow
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Custom then was priest baptised baby at home soon after birth.
Some people didn't know their exact age so you need to be flexible when searching for a baptism and for a birth after birth registrations began.
One of my family names was incorrectly transcribed so that it was unrecognisable in an online index of Irish baptisms. Indexer of a neighbouring parish mistakenly indexed babies under mothers' maiden names instead of under babies' surnames.
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Interesting, I looked through three years either side but I will increase that.
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Some information & tips about Irish baptisms in this article.
IrelandXO Insight - Irish Naming and Baptism Traditions
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/irelandxo-insight-irish-naming-and-baptism-traditions
The second half of the article is headed "Using the patterns to solve gap-ridden baptism records". Differences before and after the Great Irish Famine are listed.
IrelandXO aka Ireland Reaching Out is an Irish family history forum organised by parish. If you're sure of the parish you can post an enquiry in the forum under the parish. Enquiries without a known parish go on the general board.
How reliable is the record from which you calculated a birth year?