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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Kath Boon on Saturday 18 July 20 11:59 BST (UK)
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My g.g.grandfather, John Lumsden c1832 married Jane Somerville c1832 around 1853(ish). According to all the census records they had five children - William c1854, Mary 1855 (confirmed), Alice A c1860, Charlotte c1869 and Betsy Ann 1870(confirmed). The problem I am having is that I can only find records on Mary and Betsy Ann. The only birth record I found on William was in 1855 which means that he was born 6 months after his sister Mary, but as the census states he is the older brother so it cannot be right. I can find no record of Alice A or Charlotte at all. I have checked Ancestry and found nothing, and am at a loss as to where to look now. I lost William after the 1871 census, Alice A after the 1861 census and Charlotte after the 1871 census. Can anyone out there help me please?
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Did you notice that in 1861 William is shown as b Castle Eden Durham - not Northumberland?
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Where does Janes surname of Somerville come from
LUMSDON, CHARLOTTE mmn COURTNEY
GRO Reference: 1867 Dec Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 294
There is a Joseph Courtney who is living with the family in 1861 & 1871
Marriage June qtr 1853
Courtney Jane
Lumsdon John
Tynemouth 10b 216
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Did you notice that in 1861 William is shown as b Castle Eden Durham - not Northumberland?
If he was born Castle Eden, his birth should be registered in Easington R.D.
The only birth record I found on William was in 1855 which means that he was born 6 months after his sister Mary, but as the census states he is the older brother so it cannot be right.
I can't see a William born Easington RD in 1855.
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'Betsy Ann'
LUMSDON, ELIZABETH ANN mmn COURTNEY
1870 March Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 311
LUMSDEN, MARY mmn COURTNEY
1856 June Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 167
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LUMSDON, WILLIAM mmn COURTNEY
1853 Dec Quarter in EASINGTON Volume 10A Page 209
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Marriage John Lumsdon and Jane Courtney
1853 AMJ Tynemouth 10b 216
(oops sorry Rosie)
Kath did you know you can now see mothers maiden name when searching birth on general register office website?
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Other children :-\
LUMSDEN, JANE mmn COURTNEY
GRO Reference: 1865 Mar Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 315
Deaths Dec qtr 1866
Lumsdon Jane age 1 Morpeth 10b 257
LUMSDEN, JOHN mmn COURTNEY
1862 Dec Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 267
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This is quite likely William's baptism in early 1854, at Monk Hesledon which is near Castle Eden
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQK5-CZD
Cross-referencing this to the index on Durham Records Online, the residence is Castle Eden Colliery.
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I wonder if Alice A. was actually:
GRO Births
LUMSDEN, BETSY ANN mmn CORTNEY
1860 D Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 251
Died March Qtr 1867 Morpeth.
Maureen
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Is this another daughter
LUMSDEN, SARAH JANE mmn COURTNEY
1875 Dec Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 262
ADDED
That would make sense Maureen ;D
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In 1851 Jane is a servant in the household of a John Cleasby at Whitley (Bay).
HO 107/2410/471/23
Jane Courteny, servant, u, 20, House Servant, Northumberland Long Benton
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1871 Census
John Lumsden 38
Jane Lumsden 38
William Lumsden 17
Mary Lumsden 15
Charlotte Lumsden 3
Betsy Ann Lumsden 1
Joseph Courtney 78 Boarder born Newcastle Upon Tyne (image is 28**)
Marriage on F/S.Org;
3 May 1853
Earsdon, Northumberland
Jane COURTNEY, Father EDWARD
John LUMSDEN, Father WILLIAM
1841 Census
All Saints, NBL
Grace Cortney 30
Joseph Cortney 9 mths
Looks to me that Jane is older than she makes out in Census;
JANE Courtney christened 2 Oct 1828 Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland
Parents EDWARD/GRACE
(F/S.Org)
Also on FreeREG, abode Ouse-burn, Father a Pitman
Marriage on FreeREG;
Grace SUMMERVILLE
Edward COURTNEY
02 Oct 1828 All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne
1851 Grace is a Widow;
Grace Courtney 42 born Ballast Hills All Sts
Sarah Courtney 7
John Craig 40
Looks like Joseph was illeg.
COATNEY, JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE UNION Volume 25 Page 340
Cant find Jane in 1841 Census or 2 other siblings of hers GEORGE 1829/JOHN 1830
The Bapts have the same abode as Jane but Edward is a Glass Maker
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Good one,Trish!
I would love a little more info from Kath Boon.
There are a few Lumsden (or parents) deaths in Pennsylvania that seem to match.
Do you know what happened to Jane?
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Hope all is well with the RCers.
Maureen
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Good one,Trish!
I would love a little more info from Kath Boon.
I agree with that ;D.
Going by Trish's find of the Summerville surname Kath Boon obviously knows more than was originally posted.
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Well Ill wait too until Kath replies :)
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CaroleW - I never noticed that. I thought with his parents coming from Northumberland that he would have been born here. Thanks for pointing that out.
Rosie99 - I think you are right about the Courtney name. I don't know where I got Summerville from, probably a senior moment. You have Elizabeth Ann and Mary right. Elizabeth (Betsy) emigrated to America and Mary is my g.grandmother. Thanks for finding the birth for William, much appreciated. I didn't know about the GRO, so thanks for that information. I didn't know about the other births mind, but thanks for that.
JenB - I was looking in the Northumberland area for William's birth that's how I found a birth in 1855, but now I know he was born in Castle Eden. Thanks for the info in the baptism.
MaureeninNY - It definitely looks like Alice A on the 1861 census, but you could still be correct.
I would like to thank you all for your hard work. I was nearly at the 'tearing my hair out' point, but all this information helps me no end. Lots of looking up and things to do now.
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I'm glad its all sorted out for you now :)
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MaureeninNY - the only person I am aware of that emigrated to PA is Betsy Ann. She married George Dibb and died in 1935 in Westmoreland, PA. She had Grace 1889, George 1892, John 1895 and Jean 1902 if that is any help. Mind you, I lost her parents after the 1871 census, so don't know if they emigrated as well. Betsy Ann was my g.grandmother's sister
Kath
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Hi Kath,
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Not too much info but mother Jane died in 1907:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HNCF-MXT2
More info on Ancestry:
Birth Place:
New Castle Eng
Death Date:
19 Apr 1907
Death Place:
Porter, Clarion, Pennsylvania , USA
Father:
Edward Courtney
Mother:
Grace Summerville
Find a Grave:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/164163407
I can't find her or the DIBB family on the 1900 census but I suspect she may have been living with them. And of course the 1890 census didn't survive.
Brother William also seems to have died in PA.
From Ancestry:
Birth Place:
England
Death Date:
10 Jul 1911
Death Place:
Union, Washington, Pennsylvania , USA
Father:
John Lumsden
Mother:
Jane Courtney
Find A Grave:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186454617
1910 Census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGWT-QJD
1880 Census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWNZ-JLJ
Looks like him. If so,I guess the father,John,also came to the US.
Maureen
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Hi Maureen, the information I have on Elizabeth (Betsy) Ann Lumsden is as follows:-
Born - 1870
Died - 1935 in America
English census 1871 - 14 Sinkers Row, Cambois (Cambois in a small town in the Borough of Bedlingtonshire, and is just over the river from where I am living)
English census 1891 - 28 Frankfort Street, Gateshead (Gateshead is on the other side of the river to Newcastle upon Tyne)
1900 - Liverpool to PA, USA - went with Thomas and William
1910 - Clarian PA, USA
1920 - Clarion PA, USA
1930 - Butler PA, USA
Her daughter Grace was born in 1899 in USA
Her son George was born 1892 in England
Her so John was born 1895 in England
Her daughter Jean was born in USA
This is as much information as I have at present, and probably explains why you cannot find her on the two USA census'
Hope this information helps
Kath