RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Sally4x on Tuesday 14 July 20 23:13 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know where I can search for French people?
This is a really strange story. A relative on my mother’s side was called Reginald Frank Roll and at the age of 28 he married a Laurence Maria Henrietta Espie who was 24 and French in 1921 in Somerleyton, Suffolk, England. On her marriage certificate her father is named as Jean Espie and a gentleman so I’m presuming he was wealthy.
Firstly I would like to know if anyone would know why a French woman would be in Suffolk in 1921?
After the wedding Reginald and Laurence moved to India for work and she didn’t want to go. I have been told that she died in childbirth in 1926 and Reginald came back to England with the baby for his mum to look after, but his wife’s family took the baby to a France and he never saw his son again. In fact, the family said the little boy had died, but Reginald never saw a death certificate and for the rest of his life didn’t believe he had died.
Where would I even start looking for this family?
Thanks
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Laurence Marie Henriette Espie born 3 December 1897 Constantine, Algeria
http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/osd.php?territoire=ALGERIE&acte=1321959
parents : Jean Jacques Francois Espie, 31 years old, merchant and ‘mère inconue’ ?
The child was born in her father’s house, but the father doesn’t know the mother ?
I'm a little confused
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https://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_detail.php?id=1361576
- this would indicate they had a son born in Cairo in 1922
Findmypast has the GRO overseas indexes and it looks like there is Laurence's death, a birth for a Yvon J. F. Roll, and a death for a Yvon J. F. Roll - all registered with Cairo in 1921-1925.
Possibly Yvon is the son the family remembers as dying, but was there another?
I would presume that Reginald brought her back from Algeria to Suffolk in order to get married - perhaps he was in that part of the world during WWI or shortly afterwards?
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"mère inconnue" just means "mother unknown". In other words, the mother did not wish her name to appear on the child's birth certificate.
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Laurence Marie Henriette Espie born 3 December 1897 Constantine, Algeria
http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/osd.php?territoire=ALGERIE&acte=1321959
parents : Jean Jacques Francois Espie, 31 years old, merchant and ‘mère inconue’ ?
The child was born in her father’s house, but the father doesn’t know the mother ?
I'm a little confused
It could be a way for the father (biological or not) to recognize a child and breaking links with the mother.
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https://www.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/351956/15
Jean Jacques François ESPIé 's birth, son of Jean Jacques ESPIé
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https://gw.geneanet.org/saurange?lang=fr&iz=3&p=jean+jacques+francois&n=espie
A tree on geneanet
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https://www.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/?idcollection=351925&page=1
mariage of JJF ESPIé 's parents
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https://www.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/351873/9
death of jean jacques ESPIé
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Jean Jacques Francois Espié and his wife Josephine Formose de Fronsac gave birth to a child called George Henri Dominique on the 29 th of dec 1901 in Cairo Egypt ( who married in France in 1936)
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Laurence Marie Henriette Espie born 3 December 1897 Constantine, Algeria
http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/osd.php?territoire=ALGERIE&acte=1321959
parents : Jean Jacques Francois Espie, 31 years old, merchant and ‘mère inconue’ ?
The child was born in her father’s house, but the father doesn’t know the mother ?
I'm a little confused
ADDED
A list to the right states
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
GUEDJ ANNA SUZANNE ADELINE
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
BINETTI ADOLPHE LEON
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
MIRAGLIUOLO VINCENT
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
MONTANE ANTOINETTE VICTORINE
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
LOURARI MEUNOUBA
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
Unknown doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
ESPIE LAURENCE MARIE HENRIETTE
Constantine (Constantine, Algeria)
you can view the hand written record on here - I may have read these wrong - but they all seem to say - father unknown - need someone a bit more experienced than me to summarise it
https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/330615/82?idcollection=330615&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=82
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Well garstonite the link you give and the link in the quotation show the same thing : Laurence Espie ´s birth certificate which clearly says father JJF Espie and mother unknown. The other births certs of the page don't all say "father unknown ".
It is common sense to understand that the mother who gave birth to Laurence was not unknown at all, but JJF Espié said she was unkown and he was the father . Laurence was then legaly his child but had no legal link with her biological mother .
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FindMyPast has several military records for a Reginald Frank Roll, born Lowestoft. His service record under column headed "Place" mentions "Gallipoli, Mustapha, El Kulisi? and Kashgai?" (Persia/Iran?) - not easy to read.
A second record mentions "Gallipoli, Egypt and Palestine"
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http://www.archives13.fr/ark:/40700/vta045407cc8d6c3d0a/daoloc/0#id:802227018?gallery=true¢er=1012.240,-2114.577&zoom=12&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00
George Henri Dominique 's" fiche matricule" : accomplished his military service in Beyrouth (1921/22), then went back home to Cairo. In 1939 he was called again in the army , then in 1940 ( 31st july) went to AUCH (Gers département ) in the castle of Bonnefonds.
28 july 1939 lived in London 177 regent Street Mitre House Room 22, 21 may 1955 lived in Paris 61 rue Ramey 18 th arrondissement
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Wow! Thanks so much for this! I never expected anyone to find out anything for me!
This is wonderful! I am guessing that is the child that died.
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George Henri Dominique is not the child who died , he became a man , married in 1935 in Saint Denis ( unfortunatly the marriage certificates aren't on line in st Denis ( seine saint denis departement) for 1935.)
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Yeah I meant Yvon must be the child that died in Cairo. His mother must have died first and the family got it wrong that Reginald brought him back to the U.K. Reginald sailed back to the U.K. in 1926 alone.
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My apologies , I misunderstood.