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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Sarndra on Sunday 12 July 20 04:12 BST (UK)

Title: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: Sarndra on Sunday 12 July 20 04:12 BST (UK)
Hi there

My GGGG grandfather James John KITCHENER died 3 Oct 1847 aged 47 at the Workhouse, Mint Street, Southwark of diarrhoea.  He is in the deaths and burials register for the above church. 

My query is what cemetery was nearby that he might be buried in.  All my searches over the years have not yielded a cemetery for him.  He was only in the workhouse due to illness and his wife Caroline was living on the outside.

Thanks in advance!

Sarndra
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: Enumerated on Sunday 12 July 20 12:10 BST (UK)
If he is in the Burial Register of St George the Martyr Church then he was buried in that churchyard.

Unless I have misunderstood something.
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 12 July 20 12:14 BST (UK)
Wikipedia says

Quote
In 1899, the crypt was cleared and 1,484 coffins were removed and re-interred at Brookwood Cemetery.
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 12 July 20 13:12 BST (UK)
You can see the Graveyard on the map at https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313045#zoom=5&lat=6345&lon=15209&layers=BT
he would be buried there, not in the crypt.
Side by Side https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=51.50140&lon=-0.09240&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 12 July 20 13:40 BST (UK)
In 1853 all burials were discontinued with the preservation of existing rights in the parish churchyard.

Stan
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 12 July 20 17:08 BST (UK)
James Kitchener died 3 Oct 1847, at St George the Martyr Workhouse

His body was taken out by his wife.
Register of deaths says he was buried 5th October, but where?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3NY-MZ3N?i=396&cat=1327715

St George the Martyr burial register is online. James not buried there.
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 12 July 20 19:38 BST (UK)
Fascinating!
From the same workhouse register of burials.
Note the change in 1849 regarding burials paid for by the parish.
From being buried at "The Lock", to buried at Victoria Park Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3NY-MH1N?i=422&cat=1327715

As far as I know, the earliest surviving burial registers, or records of burials!, for VPC are from 1853.
Probably there were burials there back in 1847, it was certainly used later by some Southwark folk (in addition to the St George workhouse cases!)

So that might be one possibility, as well as any more local alternatives.
"The Lock" is also interesting. Those workhouse burials there are found in the St George the Martyr burial registers, so was it an additional burial ground for the parish?
See also St George the Martyr in The London Burial Grounds
http://www.burial.magic-nation.co.uk/bgstgeorgemartyr.htm

Added!
It's all in the newspapers, well one or two of them!
Daily News,  26 Oct 1849
INTRAMURAL INTERMENTS AND SUPPLY OF WATER IN SOUTHWARK. A public vestry of the inhabitants of St. George the Martyr, Southwark, took place last evening, at the Vestry-hall, to consider the necessary steps for providing for the burials of the poor..
Mr. DAY, the vestry clerk, read the report of a committee, appointed on the 20th ult., to make arrangements for the interment of the poor, in consequence of the Board of Health having made an order for the closing of the Lock burial-ground and of the parish churchyard. They had ascertained that the different cemetery companies would bury at the undermentioned charges...
Upon this information the committee had unanimously resolved that it was desirable to accept the terms offered by the Victoria Park Cemetery Company, for the burial of the poor persons who might die in the parish; and they desired, in the event of the guardians of the poor adopting the same place of interment for adult paupers, to co-operate with them in making such arrangements as might best conduce to the decent and economical burial of the dead. In consequence of his reasonable charge, the vestry was recommended to vote a sum annually to the present rector,clerk, and sexton, in lieu of the fees hitherto received by them, based on the average of the last four years. The committee had directed the Lock burial-ground to be at closed on and after Friday the 26th instant (this day), and had given the guardians of the poor notice accordingly....

The Victoria Park charges were adults 7 shillings, children under 10 years, 5 shillings, under 5 years, 3 shillings.
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: Sarndra on Sunday 12 July 20 19:44 BST (UK)
James Kitchener died 3 Oct 1847, at St George the Martyr Workhouse

His body was taken out by his wife.
Register of deaths says he was buried 5th October, but where?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3NY-MZ3N?i=396&cat=1327715

St George the Martyr burial register is online. James not buried there.

Yes i have all that and his death certificate but thank you :)  I'm a long time family genealogist (40+ yrs) and a long time ancestry subscriber!

Photos of the church i hunted before posting didn't appear to show a cemetery which prompted me to post.

Cheers!
Sarndra
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: Sarndra on Sunday 12 July 20 19:46 BST (UK)
Appreciate all the feedback it's very helpful.

Dem bones dem bones dem dry bones!

Have a fabulous day/night wherever you are!

Sarndra
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 12 July 20 22:00 BST (UK)
This map shows the "Lock Burial Ground" https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313048#zoom=5&lat=1630&lon=2783&layers=BT

This side by side shows Bartholomew Street which was the site of the Lock Hospital https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol25/pp121-126
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=51.49514&lon=-0.08697&layers=163&right=BingHyb

The burial Ground is shown as a Recreation Ground on the !893-1895 map.
An 1800 map shows it as "St. George's Burial Ground"

Stan
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 12 July 20 22:47 BST (UK)
Many thanks for the info and links, Stan.
John
Title: Re: Southwark district; St George the Martyr
Post by: Sarndra on Monday 13 July 20 10:14 BST (UK)
This map shows the "Lock Burial Ground" https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313048#zoom=5&lat=1630&lon=2783&layers=BT

This side by side shows Bartholomew Street which was the site of the Lock Hospital https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol25/pp121-126
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=51.49514&lon=-0.08697&layers=163&right=BingHyb

The burial Ground is shown as a Recreation Ground on the !893-1895 map.
An 1800 map shows it as "St. George's Burial Ground"

Stan

Excellent links thanks so much!  I also learnt a lot about the Lock hospitals  - fascinating! 

Cheers
Sarndra