RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: gloucester girl on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:08 BST (UK)
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Where can I go to ask for help researching my family . Is there a french page where I can ask my questions
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Welcome to rootschat
This is the correct forum to ask about families in France+ Belgium.
If you put the names dates and towns of the people you are looking for I'm sure rootschatters will be able to point you in the right direction
Ps I recommend changing title of post to include a surname or two
Use modify button
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Thank you. My cousin asked if there was an actual French version of Roots chat that she could write in french on!!! As I am on this one Id thought Id ask that question first.
I am so far pretty impressed,, I asked only last week for info regarding my Gt Gt grandpa, and someone came back almost straight away with the obit... so grateful
we are trying to locate descendants of Charles Adam Simon, born in Bangkok 1880, and his wife Leonie Houdret born in Namur 1879. They had three children Marguerite Hortense Amelie Josephine Simon born Brussels (Forrest)April 7th 1909, Roger Bertrand Louis Simon also born in Brussels November 9th 1910 and last Isabelle Charlotte Berthe Simon on June 21 1915 in Namur just 5 days after her father was executed at Liege for being a British spy.
we have Charles's parents if more information required ....
Thank you in anticipation
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https://en.geneanet.org/ is popular with French and Belgian genealogists - you may be able to connect to fellow researchers there.
With Belgian privacy laws, you will not be able to see marriage/death records for the children. It looks to me like Leonie's family were largely in Namur so perhaps looking for relatives of the Houdret family would be a way forward.
Isabelle died in France:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:C54Z-6Z2M
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Also you might find this interesting - marriage documents
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9CX-T28Y?i=123&cc=2138511&cat=2140525
Contains, among other things
- A record of Charles Adam Simon's baptism in Bangkok
- A record of his mother's death in Singapore
- extract of Leonie's birth in Namur
- confirmations of their addresses in 1907
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Gloucester girl it would be ok for your cousin to post in French there are enough people willing to translate including myself .
I enjoy following stories with an international interest
But I.ll leave it to people like Jorose to find documents.
Jorose ...great finds
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Thank you so much for the information so far and advice I will contact my cousin who is in canada and ask her to send me the request and Ill post it.
What possibilities of further information about Isabelles siblings. , or is it the proverbial brick wall
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https://bel-memorial.org/names_on_memorials/display_names_on_mon.php?MON_ID=1510
You may already know this web site .
Have a look at SIMON Adam Charles , many details , photography.
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Thank you so much for the information so far and advice I will contact my cousin who is in canada and ask her to send me the request and Ill post it.
What possibilities of further information about Isabelles siblings. , or is it the proverbial brick wall
You should ask for Isabelles's death certificate (free) , she may have been married.
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1444
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Joger , a big Thankyou.
Yes I have seen the Bel Memorial site,, my french is not that good, but found the button to give me it in english. a very sad story. our challenge is now to find the children of Charles Adam Simon. or are we stuck.?
Gilly
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Ask ( or your cousin can) for Isabelles's death full certificate at the address I gave or directly at the mairie of Cannes. If she married once or twice , it 'll be written . She may have had children.
I was not able to find the other children on geneanet, which does not mean that hey did not have descendants . But all we have found is Isabelle's death.
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Hi there This is the message from my cousin, who is hoping that that this will be read by french speakers.. also hoping that that the wonderful roots chat is world wide!!
Nous, descendants des SIMON de Penang, recherchons nos cousins nés SIMON
Charles Adam Simon épouse Léonie Adolphine Houdret, Belgique
Enfants: Marguerite Hortense Amélie Joséphine née à Forrest, Bruxelles le 7 avril 1909 .
Domicile: inconnu
Roger Louis Bertrand né à Forrest, Bruxelles le 9 novembre 1910. Domicilé à Paris
Isabelle Charlotte Berthe née à Namur, Belgique le 21 juin 1915. Domicilée à Cannes
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when was Roger Living in Paris ´ do you know in which arrondissement, what was he doing ,was he married , name of the wife , children, etc...?
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Archives Seine-Saint-Denis - Roger Bernard Louis Simon with mother and sister Isabelle in Montreuil, Seine-Saint-Denis, France
census Montreuil 1931 https://archives.seinesaintdenis.fr/ark:/naan/a011552558619ubVL2F/c23d13f8f8 image 229 van 634
voters Montreuil 1933 https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/300730/28?idcollection=300730&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=28 (https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/300730/28?idcollection=300730&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=28)
voters register Montreuil 1933 (3M63) https://archives.seinesaintdenis.fr/ark:/naan/a011552559536A4cebD/91f79aed0a (image 412)
Montreuil 1934 (3M64) https://archives.seinesaintdenis.fr/ark:/naan/a011552559536xUIyOv/29e037eb5b (image 426)
in 1935 Isabelle lives with her mother in rue d’Avron 144, Paris (20e arrondissement)
marriage Isabelle Charlotte Bertha Josephine Simon - Raymond Leon Auguste Martin
x 16 February 1935 Paris, 20e arrondissement (divorced in 1948) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pp3/ (image 12)
in 1936 mother Leonie Adolphine Houdret still lives in the rue d’Avron, n° 144, and a man Firmin Mengeot, he is also on the census of Montreuil (with his mother) but not in the same household. census 1936 Paris http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pp4/ (image 88)
death of Leonie Adolphine Houdret + 11/01/1959 Paris, 20e arrondissement (died in hospital) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pp5/ (image 12)
on Geneanet burial register Thiais, Val-de-Marne, France : buried 15 January 1959 - Roger Simon is listed as the grave concession holder I suppose http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pp6/ (image 12)
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Oh my..... How wonderful. I really didnt expect to have information.
You are amazing. thank you so much for your help
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quick Translation
Nous, descendants des SIMON de Penang, recherchons nos cousins nés SIMON
We are descendants of SIMON of Penang looking for descendants of our SIMON cousins
Charles Adam Simon épouse Léonie Adolphine Houdret, Belgique
Epouse means wife
Enfants: Marguerite Hortense Amélie Joséphine née à Forrest, Bruxelles le 7 avril 1909 .
Domicile: inconnu
means residence unknown
Enfants : children Avril : April domicile : birthplace
inconnu unknown
Roger Louis Bertrand né à Forrest, Bruxelles le 9 novembre 1910. Domicilé à Paris
Isabelle Charlotte Berthe née à Namur, Belgique le 21 juin 1915. Domicilée à Cannes
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Leen: wonderful finds !
gloucestergirl : do you mean that you are searching the descendants born Simon ? Or do you search all the descendants of the couple Simon/Houdret ?
Marguerite had a child called Avril ? Do you know the family name?
I checked with matchid : Marguerite did not die in France from 1970 , if she died in France , she must have died before 1970.
Dito for Roger.
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Specifically looking for the three children of Adam Charles Simon and Leonie Adolphine Houdret ,
We know nothing of Margeuite Hortense, only her birth. and when her father was shot in 1915, she was called Maggie...
Roger seems to have become a mechanic, was with his mother early 1930's but then we dont have anything concrete, unless perhaps he arranged his mothers burial in 1959, as his name in on the sheet.
Isabelle , we know she married Raymond Martin in 1935 and divorced in 48, at the time of her death in 1993 she was in Cannes, and had been a school teacher. In the 1960's sometime she collected her father's British war medals.
I know Leonie had a very hard time after her husband died, the authorities wouldnt accept her as British and issue passports to allow her and the children to come to the UK where she had family. (documents found on line National Archives. so to discover more about Leonie would be nice to know. did she ever get to be "Comfortable"....
so to find either descendants, or the end of the line ... would help complete the picture.
Thank you again
Gilly
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You did not answer about the girl called Avril.
What kind of school teacher was Isabelle ? institutrice ? professeur ? it is important in France in order to find a file somewhere? and to find where she worked and might have given birth to a child.
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Good afternoon. Apologies. No child called Avril to my knowledge. Marguerite birth was April 9th.. and we know nothing about her at all. Completely off the radar.
As to Isabelle the teacher.... no idea at the moment at to what age she taught or where. I have a vague thought it may have been in Cannes. After the Divorce from Raymond Martin in 1948, does she automatically revert to her maiden name?..
Gilly
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There is no rule ,she may have kept her husband's name or not , but in both cases she will be called Simon ( her maiden name) on the official papers .
If she had a degree in school teaching she'll have a file in the archives of Education Nationale , but they aren't on line.
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Thanks Joger. My brother is in Belgium and I have a friend in Brussels who is a researcher... so may I can get them to make some enquiries.
Thank you for your time. Is your area of expertise Europe? or world wide? I still have areas of research ,so was wondering if I ask here , or start a new thread.
Gilly
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I am no expert at all but I can help in France , being french.
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The,ks to lean :
Archives Seine-Saint-Denis - Roger Bernard Louis Simon with mother and sister Isabelle in Montreuil, Seine-Saint-Denis, France
census Montreuil 1931 https://archives.seinesaintdenis.fr/ark:/naan/a011552558619ubVL2F/c23d13f8f8 image 229 van 634
in 1931 in Montreuil
Leonie Adolphine lives with Roger Bertrand , a mechanic (employer : Pernod), and Isabelle Bertha, profession : typist.
The 3 of them said they were English.
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[
voters Montreuil 1933 https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/300730/28?idcollection=300730&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=28 (https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/300730/28?idcollection=300730&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=28)
Women could not vote in France in 1933, Roger Simon is on the electoral roll, which must mean that he became french.
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Roger has been naturalized french on the 11th of Feb 1932 , decree published 10 days later ,
I'm waiting for an answer for the sisters
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Leonie is said to be with no occupation , was she living with the means of her children only or was she receiving a war widow 's pension ? (to be searched in Belgium)
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Again Thankyou.#Unfortunately we know nothing about Leonie and the children, and what happened to them. Did they ever come to visit the extended family in England who knows
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Firmin Louis Joseph Mengeot born 16/03/1878 Farciennes, Belgium, married in Brussels 30 June 1906 to Camilla Eugenia Alina Maria Simon (a Belgian Simon, she was born in Antwerp 18 July 1878, daughter of Camille Charles Leopold Simon born 1843 Bouillon, Belgium and Celina Sophia Maria Lair, born 1849 Brussels). Firmin and Camilla had a daughter Yvonne Gabrielle Suzanne Mengeot born 29 November 1902 Namur, Namur, Belgium
On the 1931 Montreuil census (reply #13), Leonie Adolphine Houdret and Firmin Louis Joseph Mengeot both lived in the rue Parmentier n° 71, but in different households.
On the 1936 Paris census, Leonie Houdret lives in the rue d’Avron n° 144, “chef” (head) of the household, the only other member of the household is Firmin Mengeot, he is “A” of Leonie. (A ? = ami ?)
Firmin Mengeot was one of the witnesses on Isabella Simon’s marriage (x 1935)
Leonie Houdret still lived at rue d’Avron n° 144 when she died (+1959)
Firmin Mengeot died at home rue d’Avron n° 144 + 27 March 1961 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ppx/
burial register cimetière parisien de Pantin, Bobigny, Seine-Saint-Denis http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ppy/
So Leonie Houdret and Firmin Mengeot knew each other for a long time. There’s some info on Ancestry for Firmin Louis Joseph Mengeot, Camille Eugenie Aline Marie Simon and Yvonne Gabrielle Suzanne Mengeot. I don’t know exactly what (I don’t have a subscription), but maybe the person who put this online knows something about your Simon’s.
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Roger's decree of naturalisation
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k2029422p/f25.image
6th name in the left column
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thank you, I have an ancestry membership, and found Firmin. the documents (in french of course) were his marriage and his death.. But I have messaged IsabellaCaliri who manages the tree asking if she might have some information.
So thank you again.
At this rate we well find Roger B L Simon survived beyong the 1950's...I am hoping that his name on his mothers burial record does not mean he is buried there , but that he is the one who organised the burial.....
Gilly
Any UK stuff I can help you with. As I say I have an Ancestry membership
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Marguerite married a man called Gustave Gronemann,born in Budapest, she became french on the 30th August 1947.
Gustave Gronemann died 29 th may 1965 in Boulogne Billancourt, he was 58. Marguerite was the heiress. He was buried in Thiais then in 1971 the coffin was moved in the cemetery of ESCATALENS in the Tarn et Garonne department.
I did not find Marguerite's death , which may mean that she died before 1970 ("matchid" begins in 1970) or that she is still alive (very old ).
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https://gw.geneanet.org/cp06?lang=fr&p=margueritte&n=simon
Have a look . They had 2 children : Charles Roger and Isabelle Charlotte
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https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/arkotheque/client/mdh/engages_volontaires_etrangers/resus_rech.php
Gustave was a volunteer during WW2 , he was born 29 november 1905 in Budapest
Just type his name and first name
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https://www.geneanet.org/archives/etat-civil/colgnecmmhengages/17044?preview=YTo1OntzOjM6Im5vbSI7czo5OiJHUk9ORU1BTk4iO3M6NjoicHJlbm9tIjtzOjc6Ikd1c3RhdmUiO3M6MTI6Im5vbV9jb25qb2ludCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTU6InByZW5vbV9jb25qb2ludCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoicmVsYXRpb24iO3M6MjE6InNlYXJjaF9yZWxhdGlvbl9zdWpldCI7fWE4Zjc3MWRlZjI4OWQ1ZjA0YTg2YzczZGM2ZTA2ZTA2
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https://geneafrance.com/france/deces/?deces=3768991&annee=00
she may have been Marguerite's daughter , very probable
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https://deces.politologue.com/gronemann-charles-roger.uOL0hGL0gOvTgO90Mpv0hO70hO7kUOA8rOvYAp7jAOLkROL0rO-
May have been Marguerite's son, very probable
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Oh my word Joger, you have been busy.... coming so close to the here and now!!!!
I would say without a shadow of a doubt Charles Roger and Isabelle Charlotte Leonie Gronemann are my distant relations..
Thank you so much....
fingers are still crossed.....
Gilly
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https://geneafrance.com/france/deces/?deces=3768991&annee=00
she may have been Marguerite's daughter , very probable
the link was not the right one
https://deces.politologue.com/gronemann-isabelle-charlotte-leonie.uOL0hG70VOLT9OvnUGvXrpP8AOvY9OL08O7nVGv08p0
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https://deces.politologue.com/r.pol?t=d&r=isabelle+charlotte+gronemann
list of the gronemann deaths
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Bonjour, marguerite simon épouse gronemann était ma grand-mère, elle est née le 7 août 1909 et non le 7 avril 1909, ils ont eu 7 enfants dans l'ordre : charles, isabelle, claudie, josiane, jean-claude, marie-christiane et 8 petits enfants : gilles, denis et yves enfants d'isabelle, éric et nathalie enfants de josiane, sébastien enfant de jean-claude, séverine et frédéric enfants de marie-christiane. Ma grand-mère est décédée le 15 janvier 1986 à escatalens où le vivait depuis de nombreuses années, elle est inhumée auprès de mon grand-père gustave né le 29 novembre 1905 et décédé le 21 mai 1965. Voilà si j'ai pu vous aider un peu dans vos recherches
Moderator Comment: Google translated to:
Hello, marguerite simon wife gronemann was my grandmother, she was born on August 7, 1909 and not on April 7, 1909, they had 7 children in order: charles, isabelle, claudie, josiane, jean-claude, marie- christiane and 8 grandchildren: gilles, denis and yves children of isabelle, eric and nathalie children of josiane, Sébastien child of jean-claude, severine and frédéric children of marie-christiane. My grandmother died on January 15, 1986 in Escatalens where he had lived for many years, she is buried with my Gustavian grandfather born on November 29, 1905 and died on May 21, 1965. This is if I could help you a little in your research
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Bonjour Thalie05, merci beaucoup pour votre message, l'entraide généalogique fonctionne bien.
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Many thanks Thalie,
My mistake , regarding Margarites Birth. My apologies I do not speak enough French , but my cousin does. I have much historical information. and would like to speak with you.
Gillean
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Thalie05
Bonjour! Est-ce bien votre prénom? Ma cousine anglophone en Angleterre s’occupe beaucoup
de recherches en ligne en vue de la rédaction de bios de nos arrière-grands-parents
maternels, les Simon. Pour conter leur histoire romanesque dans l’ère coloniale en
Extrême-Orient, je me sers de lettres d’amour entre le Capitaine Simon ( Français) et sa
bien-aimée Juliet Rodyk, métissée mais aussi issue d’une famille hollandaise établie à
Penang vers 1805.
Saviez-vous que le papa de Margarite (Margot) fut fusillé par les Allemands pour
espionnage en 1915? Nous avons tenté en vain de vous rejoindre, vous ses descendants
directs pour que vous ayez l’occasion d’assister aux cérémonies commémoratives organisées
à Liège au centenaire de la Première Guerre Mondiale.
Si jamais vous voulez apprendre davantage de vos ancêtres je me ferai un plaisir de vous
offrir une foule de renseignements à ma disposition. Depuis le temps que nous vous
cherchons!! Mon adresse:dbeauroy@rogers.com
Je suis toujours en ligne, mais Facebook/RootsChat- connais pas!
À bientôt, j’espère.
Votre cousine, Daphné Beauroy, Toronto, Canada
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i AMTRYING VERY HARD TO GET A MESSAGE TO THALIE05..
Thalie your inbox is full, I am very keen to Contact you regarding your Grandmother Margarite Simon/Gronnemann ,She was my mothers second cousin.
please communicate we could use emails
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Many thanks Thalie,
My mistake , regarding Margarites Birth. My apologies I do not speak enough French , but my cousin does. I have much historical information. and would like to speak with you.
Gillean
Bonjour Gilliean, ne vous inquiétez pas moi c'est l'inverse je ne parle pas du tout anglais, j'utilise un logiciel de traduction. Je suis nouvelle sur rootschat donc il faut que publie au moins 3 fois pour pouvoir avoir accès à la messagerie,
Moi j'ai peut-être des informations qui pourraient vous aider dans vos démarches de recherches
Nathalie
Hello Gilliean, don't worry me it's the other way around I don't speak English at all, I use translation software. I'm new to rootschat so I have to post at least 3 times to be able to access the mailbox,
I may have information that could help you in your research
Nathalie
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i AMTRYING VERY HARD TO GET A MESSAGE TO THALIE05..
Thalie your inbox is full, I am very keen to Contact you regarding your Grandmother Margarite Simon/Gronnemann ,She was my mothers second cousin.
please communicate we could use emails
i AMTRYING VERY HARD TO GET A MESSAGE TO THALIE05..
Thalie your inbox is full, I am very keen to Contact you regarding your Grandmother Margarite Simon/Gronnemann ,She was my mothers second cousin.
please communicate we could use emails
Bonjour, je maîtrise pas très bien rootschat, mais je vais m'y pencher, toujours pas les droits pour échanger par messagerie, apparemment je ne peux pas transmettre mon mail tant que j'ai pas la MP activitée, à très bientôt. Thalie
Hello, I am not very familiar with rootschat, but I will look into it, still not have the rights to exchange by mail, apparently I can not send my mail until I have the PM activated, see you very soon. Thalia
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gloucester girl please keep in mind that new members are not able to use the PM function until they have made a couple of post that Thalia now has done.
Regards
Sarah
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Bonjour Daphné, moi je suis Nathalie, mais on m'a toujours appelé Thalie. Et oui je savais que mon arrière grand père avait été fusillé par les allemands et qu'il était agent des services de renseignements au service de sa Majesté, et a ce titre mon arrière grand mère a touché une pension de veuve de guerre donc elle ne s'est pas remarié mais a vécu avec Firmin.
À très bientôt , votre cousine
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Bien chère Nathalie, c’est Daphné, cousine francophone de Gillean qui vous parle. De
nationalité française par le mariage je travaille toujours ( à mon grand âge encore!)
comme interprète de conférence, vers le français. Donc, n’ayez aucune crainte: non
seulement dominerais-je la langue française mais suis-je en mesure de traduire vers
l’anglais pour Gillean.
Avant de vous préciser notre degré de parenté et tous les faits qui nous relient à travers
l’histoire surprenante qui nous appartient, je voudrais vous demander si vous pourrez
correspondre par mail. Voyez-vous, je suis nulle en Facebook, RootsChat et compagnie alors
que le courriel ( le terme au Canada) ou ‘mail/mel’ en Europe, ça me connaît sans exclure
Gillean qui elle a accès à n’importe quel des médias en question.
Mon mail: dbeauroy@rogers.com