RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: cinny22 on Wednesday 08 July 20 14:22 BST (UK)
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Hi, i'd like to start by saying i do hope you are well and staying free from this dreadful virus. Take care and stay safe.
I'm hoping you may put me on the right track?
I have recently found a marriage certificate that i BELIEVE belongs to my family line. I have tried every which way to get more info.............spending over 6 hrs yesterday and another 3 today. It's not for the want of trying.
The marriage is of John Fletcher, Soldier?...........father John Fletcher, deceased at the time of his marriage. (my family line) Married 28th Aug 1848 at St. Mary's, Newington, Sussex.
His wife Caroline Freeman Smith, described as a "minor" Father is William Smith. As a witness there is a Henry Freeman.
I have been working trying to find the parents of this Caroline Freeman Smith all with out success!!
I would love to find both parents and family...........can some one help me out?
I have tried to include the marriage certificate, but it is too big............
Again, stay safe..........thanks............Cinny22
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I have tried to include the marriage certificate, but it is too big............
We are only allowed to put these images on here 'in part' if we need something transcribing
Caroline Freeman Smith is listed as a Minor - Spinster-abode Myers Place -her father William Smith occ Type Founder.
Witnesses Henry Freeman & Harriet Tamplin
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Yes, that's the one.............thank you.
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Where do you have her after her marriage, where and when was she born
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Sorry, i have searched and search, but can't fine her or them in any census before or after the marriage. I THINK they had a child.............Caroline Fletcher born 12th Apr 1847, Bishopsgate, London. As you can see this birth was before their marriage, and perhaps this is why he had to marry her so young......then again this may not be them? My other thought was seeing that he was a "soldier" perhaps he went off to the Crimea War? and never came back, but this is only a theory? They are so frustrating. Thanks.
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Caroline Fletcher born 12th Apr 1847, Bishopsgate, London.
You can check the birth registration for this child to see if mothers maiden name was Smith.
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Is the Caroline Fletcher bn 1847 the line that you are trying to track
This birth looks as though it may match that record
FLETCHER, CAROLINE mmn SHERMAN
1847 June Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 192
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There is a Caroline born 12 Mar 1847 baptised 4 April with parents John and Caroline but he is a weaver.
Abode 10 Angel Alley
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This birth looks as though it may match that record
FLETCHER, CAROLINE mmn SHERMAN
1847 June Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 192
Another Caroline in Mar 1848 with MMN Shearman
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Marriage in Jun 1845 Stepney with
John Fletcher
Caroline Shearman on the same page
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Yes that is the birth i found................i didn't know that he was a Weaver.......it should be "Soldier" i guess.
The connection i have to this couple is that John Fletcher, born 4th Jan 1835 in Rodington, Salop would be a member of my direct line. We have hardly any information on this line of family.
I believe that this John Fletcher married Caroline Freeman Smith......Cinny22
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The March 1848 one :-\
Caroline Fletcher
Baptism 05 Mar 1848
Residence St. Botolph Bishopsgate
Parent Charles & Mary AnnMary Ann
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Yes, not sure now, but don't think this is the right now....
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The connection i have to this couple is that John Fletcher, born 4th Jan 1835 in Rodington, Salop would be a member of my direct line. We have hardly any information on this line of family.
I believe that this John Fletcher married Caroline Freeman Smith......Cinny22
So we really need to be looking for John Fletcher and where he went. Who were his parents and where are they in 1841
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See what you think...............
John Fletcher born 4th Jan 1835 in Rodington. Salop. His parents were John and Margaret Fletcher.
I believe just after this birth, John Fletcher (sen) dies.............don't know how, where or exactly when, but in 1842 Margaret re-marries. She goes onto having lots more children.
Her previous children who survive.......Mary Fletcher and John and possibly Joseph Fletcher all get "farmed" out. Mary is with her grandparents, John is with his relatives.......i believe the "Humphreys" and Joseph..........is unknown.
I don't think Margaret has much to do with them after this?? This is what i have found out.
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Born 1835 and married 1848 would make him the minor not Caroline :o
Can we have a go at finding the marriage address on census - Myer's Place?
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Where was Margaret Fletcher in 1841
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Margaret is getting married to Francis Beedlestone.
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That was 1842 :-\
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Have not been able to find her in the 1841 Census...........
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Possibly the one in Sutton Maddock 1841 as that is where she was in 1851
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Thanks, i don't have her in either the 1841 or the 51, only in the 1861. So i will now take a look......
But as you know, i'm not so worried about her, as we know what happened, but the two other children, are a mystery.........John and Joseph Fletcher...........I can't find a "hair" of them anywhere...... :'(
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I'm not sure what the rules are regarding my contact with you all, and not sure if i'm allowed to say your "usernames" but i will just this one time.
Rosie99 many thanks for all your help over the time i have had inquiries.....you and your team members have solved a lot of mysteries in my family lines.............many many thanks for all your time and devotion.
I have only found one Margaret Fletcher in the 1841 Census and this Margaret was in Bolas Magna and she was with a family of Fletchers..........The 1851 Census i found a Margaret Beedlestone with a John Beedlestone............but don't think this is her as her husband is Francis.
After our emails back and forth tonight about John Fletcher and Caroline Freeman Smith, i can now see my "folly" and to think i spent all those hours researching the wrong person ??? All i saw was that the father was John Fletcher "deceased" and the rest, went into overdrive...........all those wasted hours. If only i had realized that his date of birth was so wrong for this marriage. In a way i'm glad i made contact with you all, as i most likely would have still been researching him and Caroline.
Well my Fletcher family still remain a problem, but who knows.................. one day :D
Thank you again Rosie99 and Milliepede.........stay well and stay safe.
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Sometimes looking at the parents records helps to locate the children. What was Margarets maiden name and when did she marry John Fletcher
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Good morning Rosie99,
Thank you for your email.
I could and would gladly give you all the information you require regarding Margaret's maiden surname and where and when she married and her history further back, as i have it, but i just CANT break into her husband's line of family............John Fletcher. He is my direct line and it is very important for me to follow his line or at least find his parents or descendants.
This is why i have been concentrating on his male children. I have been trying my hardest to find his descendants.
I believe he died between 1835-1840,(place and date unknown) he must have passed i believe shortly after the birth of his last son John Fletcher, born 4th Jan 1835 in Rodington, Salop...........as no more children were born as far as i can tell and then Margaret re-marries as you know to Francis Beedlestone in 1842. There was another son born to this couple not long after their marriage: Joseph Fletcher b. 11th May 1828, Wellington. Shropshire. He is still missing to me and the family.
Rosie99, today i was surprised as I found, then "trawled" through my messages over the year or two that i have made contact with "RootsChat". I find that all the information and inquiries still exist on the "open" web, and i'm a bit troubled by it. Is there any way of "deleting" my correspondence and inquiries from the web?
This is why i'm a bit more cautious this time about giving you names of the above family. I also realize that they will be forever in "open" sight. I also realize that with out telling you most of the information you won't be able to assist me with my inquiry. This is a real dilemma for me.
Is there any way around this? I see that there is a place i can personally email you on the left side of my inquiry (personal message)..........i could send you all the important information via here? I don't think this is public?
Mentioning a few names here and there i won't worry about as long as most of it is hidden.......
What do you think, can we give it a go and try?
I will send you a "personal message" with all the information and we can take it from there?
I would really love to end one of these last mysteries, and will be advised by you.
Thank you for listening to me and my concerns...........bye for now Cinny22
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Hi
These people are already in "open sight" and died long ago. What is the harm in naming them? Especially when you already have :)
Records of them are indexed and available online.
Marriage of John Fletcher and Margaret Peplow was at Wellington, 15 May 1827
Image is on FamilySearch, a witness was Joseph Fletcher
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH6-7SRD-C?cc=3155854
Baptism of Joseph in 1828, details already given by Rosie on your old thread, but here is the image.
John was a Labourer.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6T-JVG4?i=130&cc=3155854
So the name Joseph appears to be a good clue to something - marriage witness, and first son.
Good luck!
John
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Thanks jonw65, i do take your point, but unfortunately life is much more complicated.
Never the less with regards to the Joseph as a witness.....possibly brother.............i have spent hours researching this evidence and all with out success..............and as i have found out researching other members of family who leave off information in documents..............witness's could be other members, such as Cousins, Uncles etc...........life is not, so straight forward.
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Hi
All we can do is try!
A Joseph Fletcher married Jane Cruxton, 1 January 1823, Wellington
Witnessed by Samuel Fletcher
All three marked
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH6-7SPT-P?cc=3155854
They had a daughter Ann born 29 May 1824
Baptized at Wellington, 20 July 1825
Abode Aston
father Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6T-JK9L?cc=3155854
Aston was also was the abode on the Joseph to John/Margaret baptism in 1828
Is that Aston, "a hamlet in Wrockwardine "? :-\
1841 census, Wellington
piece 907 book 3 folio 11 page 14
Jarratts Lane
Joseph Fletcher 45 Ag Lab
Jane Fletcher 40
Ann Fletcher 15 Dressmaker
Joseph Fletcher 10 Road? Lab :-\
All born county, John Hovington, 75, in same house
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRV-QFC
May or may not be the same Joseph who witnessed John and Margaret's marriage. Can't tell!
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If that 10 year old Joseph was a son of Joseph and Jane, then I haven't seen a baptism in the parish registers that are online.
1871 census
piece 2949 folio 81 page 35
Wednesfield, Staffs
with John + Harriet Hughes
Joseph Fletcher Boarder Married 44 Miner, born Wellington Salop
Sarah Fletcher Boarder Married 47 Wellington Salop
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDDZ-8FV
Said lodger but crossed out.
Haven't found them earlier.
Any marriage?
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Thanks jonw65 yes, i did find that 1841 Census for Joseph and Jane today as i was looking where Joseph (jun born to John and Margaret) may have gone, after his Father's death. .............but could not tell if he was a visitor or a family member.
I thought i would have a last shot at this, but it seems that finding and putting this family together is quite hopeless.
It is so hard to put a family together when there is not enough pertaining evidence, connected to a family.
Just received your latest message. I didn't think to look for a "baptism" for that Joseph Fletcher with Joseph and Jane.................that's interesting.
I will continue to look around.......thanks
The 1871 Census is interesting to, no i don't have any marriage, but if i find one and it looks "hopeful" i will certainly order it from GRO. One way would be to make sure the Father is John Fletcher...deceased.
Thanks a lot jonw65.
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Wow jonw65....................have just discovered that i did already have that 1871 Census + have you seen the 1881 Census??
There is a child William and a MOTHER Margaret..........70yrs????? I never saw this before.
The 1881 Census is: Bolas Magna, Shropshire...........
What do you think?
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A Joseph Fletcher married Jane Cruxton, 1 January 1823, Wellington
Witnessed by Samuel Fletcher
Fletcher is a fairly common name in those parts.
One Samuel marriage in Wellington in that decade
5 May 1823
Samuel Fletcher
+
Martha Jones
wit Ann Barber, Thos Jones
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH6-7SRK-Z?cc=3155854
Aston - A township in the parish of Wellington
So not the hamlet of Wrockwardine?
Aston is where Samuel and Martha appear to be in 1841
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRV-877
In 1851 in Aston children suddenly appear!
Samuel Fletcher, 50, born Wellington, Agricultural Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDL-LNX
Baptism of son Charles in 1827. In Wrockwardine!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NY21-796
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There is a child William and a MOTHER Margaret..........70yrs????? I never saw this before.
The 1881 Census is: Bolas Magna, Shropshire...........
Hi
Sadly I don't think it is them. It is a much younger Joseph and Sarah, and mother Margaret is Fletcher. Whereas your Margaret had become Beedlestone.
John
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Just when you think your making "head way" your balloon gets burst! :'(
I really thought i had that...........
Never mind, Samuel may be a link to the family. I'll keep diggin' around.....thanks again.
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jonw65, just letting you know also that yesterday i THINK I have found John Fletcher b. 1835, Rodington, Salop.
I believe this is him with his Aunt and Uncle Joseph and Sarah Humphreys in the 1841 Census. He is only 6yrs old. After this 1841 Census............he's gone :o
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Sorry I have been away from home today and will have to catch up with Johns posts.
I am afraid that any replies I make will be on the board and not by PM as we are encouraged to make information available so others can see what is being discussed except in respect of recent events or living people.
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I believe this is him with his Aunt and Uncle Joseph and Sarah Humphreys in the 1841 Census. He is only 6yrs old. After this 1841 Census............he's gone :o
Well spotted.
Joseph Humphreys + Sarah Peplow
21 April 1823, Wrockwardine
Sorry I have been away from home today and will have to catch up with Johns posts.
Welcome back Rosie!
And I will be away tomorrow :(
John
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Somewhere nice I hope ;D. You have certainly found a lot in my absence.
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Thank you Rosie99 for your last couple of messages...........yes we covered a bit of ground yesterday which was really helpful.
Today i took the time in sorting out all the information and made up a "tree" on Ancestry using all the information that we found and collected..............it does look impressive and much more data then i have had previously. 8)
I have made a separate tree on Ancestry, as i'm "frighted" that it could all be wrong and end up disappointed by having to take it all off. BUT, i'm very, very confidant that we are on the right track this time.
In by placing this "tree" on Ancesrty it has connected with other members of this supposed family and i'm waiting to hear back from two...........but unfortunately, you know what that is like!!! :(
Unfortunately too, they have not done a lot of research, and have only followed their direct lines of family, thus not researching the family completely and finding other siblings.
As stated previously i did mange to find John Fletcher b. 1835 Rodington at his Uncle and Aunt's home in the 1841 Census............a look around today, still can't find him after that.
It's amazing that "people" can just fall completely out of sight.
I guess you have looked at the other bits and bobs we came across yesterday. By my reckoning, we are dealing now with three brothers, Samuel, Joseph and John Fletcher.
Rosie99 today i spent quite a bit of time TRYING to see if by chance i could find the parents of this trio.............It is really difficult to sort out all the parents. I would find one hopeful, and then not find the other two and vice a versa.
I am ever hopeful tho, and while there is a spare minute to research, i'll be doing it.
Thanks once again for all your help.
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Somewhere nice I hope ;D.
Barts Hospital!
Quite nice thank you, once I found the East Wing!
Cinny, we may be dealing with three brothers. Can't be totally sure. Aston seems to be a link, so perhaps those three marriages are connected. We shall see.
But where did Joseph in Staffs in 1871 spring from?
John
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Hi,
Joseph Fletcher in the 1871 Census of Staffs was the son of John and Margaret Fletcher b. 1828 in Wellington, Salop. He was on the Census with his wife Sarah, who states also that she is from Wellington.............i wish this was true, as i have "trawled" the internet today to find her and her marriage, but of course your guessed it.............no luck, but i did find a couple that look interesting, but of course there is always "something" that does not fit well. Firstly if they were both from Wellington, why the marriage in Derbyshire, or Staffordshire?
Joseph Fletcher m. Sarah Woodhead, 13th Oct 1869.....Whitfield Derbyshire. Joseph was 39 and Sarah 40.
Then Joseph Fletcher to Sarah Farmer in Wolverhampton, Staff.
These marriages were just before the Census, i was hoping for a younger marriage and then some children. The first one that i was able to "sight" stated that his father was John Fletcher........Deceased, BUT John's occupation was Paper Maker.
Looking back on all the baptisms, he was just a "laborer".............
I really don't know, perhaps i should just give up and be thankful for all that you have been able to unravel for me..........i am truly thankful...........but as you know, you always want more.
My best to you.
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Barts Hospital!
Quite nice thank you, once I found the East Wing!
Good to see you back here, those old London hospitals are impressive buildings ;D.
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I keep going back to this but at the moment I am afraid I have nothing to add