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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: smclaren on Tuesday 07 July 20 14:50 BST (UK)
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Good evening All
I am looking to push the known history of my family back further.
My most furtherest confirmed ancestor is Colin McLaren b.1819 Kinnoul. Things get sketchy before him ... and thought that I would see if anyone on the RootsChat board can assist ?
Colins patents are thought to be Duncan (a gardener from/at Murrayshall) and Jane (b.1788) ... but thats all I have. It would be great to confirm the parents details and hopefully go back further from there.
Colin's siblings are as follows are apparently all born in Kinnoul:
John Murray b.6-9-1812
Janet b.6-8-1814
David b.17-11-1816
Colin b.23-5-1819
Mary b.28-11-1821
Margaret b.21-5-1824
Christian b.13-6-1827
Murray b. 21-9-1829
Any and all help greatly appreciated.
Steve McLaren
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Hi Steve :)
From what you have , Colin's parents are Duncan McLaren and Janet Gardiner ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1VN-CD7
Marriage ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY3G-QXX
Have you found the Family on the Census ?
ev
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Cannot find any trace of the family on 1841 census in Scotland. Name could be misspelt.
Was trying to establish age of Duncan.
I had a possibility in Balquhidder in 1787 to a Colin McLaren & Margaret McLaren.
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Thank you ev & Kloumann
Kloumann ... is there any way to confirm your suggestion to Duncan ?
Thank you for your help.
Steve
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Steve, Not without knowing his age on either a census or his death, neither of which I have been able to find. I used an educated guess based on the christian names of his children, ie, Colin & Margaret & that he was similar in age to his wife. Did they stay in Scotland or did they emigrate? Unless the name was misspelt on the census, I cannot find any record of them in 1841 or any death record for Duncan. I also tried searching for Murray McLaren...... No trace of him in Scotland after his birth.
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Thanks Kloumann ... I appreciate your input here. Unfortunately I have nothing else to contribute in terms of identification or family knowledge for Duncan (or Janet). It seems that I am still stuck at this point in time. If you can think of any other strategies that I could use to progress the search ... I'd be really interested in hearing them.
Thanks again for your help.
Steve
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Steve, have you actually viewed the original baptism records at Scotland's People? If they name the witnesses to the baptism, these can often provide clues to the wider family.
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Hello again, Kloumann .... here it is attached.
Not much there by my viewing ... have you any ideas on it ?
Thanks as always !
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Hi there ev
Quick question .... do you know why you/me/we can find Duncan & Janet's marriage on Family Search but I can seem to find it on the Scotlands People website ?
Thanks
Steve
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Quick question .... do you know why you/me/we can find Duncan & Janet's marriage on Family Search but I can seem to find it on the Scotlands People website ?
It is in the Church of Scotland records on Scotland's People. 1811, Duncan McLaren and Janet Gardener, Scone.
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Great ... thanks again, Forfarian.
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Hi Steve. From Collin's baptism record, I can see that Duncan was a gardener for the Murray family at Murrayshall House in Scone. Hence 2 of the children given the Murray in their name.
https://www.murrayshall.co.uk/estate-history#:~:text=Originally%20built%20in%201664%2C%20Murrayshall,and%20Fourth%20Viscount%20of%20Stormont).&text=Due%20to%20the%20family%20connections,house%20for%20over%20260%20years.
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I had a possibility in Balquhidder in 1787 to a Colin McLaren & Margaret McLaren.
There's a Duncan McLaren, aged 57, born Balquhidder, farming in St Ninians in 1851. If his age was a bit out he could be this one.
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Is this your Duncan in 1841 at Dalfield Walk, Dundee: gardener, aged 50, with Janet, 45; Jess, 20; David, 15; Margret, 15; Christina, 13; Grace, 11, and Mary, 4?
Colin is already married and with his wife and baby in Inchture.
Mary McLaren, age 9, daughter of Duncan McLaren, labourer was buried in the Howff, Dundee, on 28 August 1846.
Duncan McLaren, 68, was buried in the New Howff on 17 February 1855. The death certificate of Duncan McLaren who died on 14 February 1855 is all but illegible, and is indexed as age 18, so one or the other must be wrong. He died in the Asylum, so there is a possibility that there might be information about him in the asylum records. See https://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/thecollections/ NHS Tayside Archive.
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Duncan was certainly a Gardener at Murrayshall from the birth of the 1st child in 1812 until the last, his daughter, Murray, in 1829.
Janet Gardner was born Kinnoull, 1788, daughter of Robert Gardner & Janet Crighton.
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Odd, then, that Duncan and Janet apparently didn't name a son Robert?
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I agree Forfarian. I was using the date Steve had on his original post & Kinnoull as her birth place. The only other one I can see would be in 1793, daughter of a David Gardiner, in Abernyte. Nothing near Kinnoull or Scone.
There was a birth in 1788 in Perth but father was Thomas
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Thanks Kloumann & Forfarian for your efforts here. It is very much appreciated.
I checked my records again, Duncan & Janet's kids are as I presented earlier (to the best of my knowledge), so no change there.
Kloumann is correct that Janet's parents were Robert Gardener & Janet Crighton (m. July 1781 in Kimoul).
I will start researching Murrayshall to see if I can find something there, I sent them an enquiry to ask if they have/know someone who specialises int he history of the estate ... perhaps that may help me get a kick along.
There must be a record somewhere Duncan's birth record ... but it seems there is just not enough information to prove thats its "our" Duncan.
Steve
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Kloumann is correct that Janet's parents were Robert Gardener & Janet Crighton (m. July 1781 in Kimoul).
What is your evidence for that?
If that 1841 census is the right family, Janet is listed as aged 45. Adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so if 45 is accurate she could in fact have been any age between 45 and 49. The 1841 census was taken on 7 June, so she would have been born between 8 June 1791 and 7 June 1796.
The daughter of Robert Gardner and Janet Crighton would have been 53 on census day 1841, and should have been listed as aged 50 (if at all, of course).
There is a Janet Gardiner, daughter of David Gardiner, baptised in Abernyte in 1793, and a dozen or so Jan(n)et Gard(i)ners born further away between 1791 and 1796, so you need to have some positive proof of your Janet's parentage. Especially as Duncan and Janet named their second son David and did not name a son Robert.
must be a record somewhere Duncan's birth record ...
Not necessarily. There are lots of people whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.