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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: EHarling on Tuesday 07 July 20 14:39 BST (UK)
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Hello!
I'm researching an interesting surname and route of my family tree. My great, great, great grandmother was Louisa Dorizac, born in Sheerness, Kent in 1848. This name caught my eye as it's clearly not English and I've been trying to find the origin.
Louisa's father was John Dorizac, born in c.1795 in New Windsor. John was part of the Royal Waggon Train at Waterloo in 1815. He then joined the Navy and was an A.B. aboard the ship Glasgow (some time between 1793-1827). He married Louisa Collins in 1832 in Kent, then after she died at an unknown time, married Ellen Chapman some time before 1844 when they have their first child together. They go on to have 7 children, always living in Sheerness, Kent. Later in life John is a Greenwich Pensioner. He dies in 1864 in Sheerness.
John Dorizac's father is Peter Dorizac. Although I can't find a baptism for John, there is only one Dorizac in Britain born before him - Peter. Therefore, it must be his father. Peter is born c.1770 (not sure where). He marries Sarah Thompson in Clewer, Berkshire in 1794. After she dies in 1797, he marries Elizabeth Meads in Hampshire in 1811. He dies in 1834 in New Windsor, Berkshire.
This Dorizac family is the only family with that surname in Britain until modern times. Most other Dorizacs in the world seem to be in New Zealand, Australia or America. I can't find any with that spelling of the name in Europe. It seems that the Dorizacs were possibly not originally called that, but spelt their name that way when they came to England. The Dorizacs in New Zealand etc. are probably descendants from this family that emigrated.
I would love to find where the Dorizac surname originates and what the original version of this name was. Even in the British Dorizac family, it's often recorded or transcribed wrong (e.g Dorizas/Dowizac/Doryzac etc). I'd also love to know where Peter Dorizac came from and what he did, as I can't find any information about him. Could there be a connection to another country from his son being in the Navy/fighting at Waterloo?
I'd be very grateful for any information.
Ellen Harling
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married Ellen Chapman some time before 1844 when they have their first child together
DORIZAC, ELIZA mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1842 Sept Quarter in SHEPPEY UNION Volume 05 Page 400
My great, great, great grandmother was Louisa Dorizac, born in Sheerness, Kent in 1848.
DORIZAC, LOUISA mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1845 Sept Quarter in SHEPPEY Volume 05 Page 437
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1841
John Dorizac
Rank Able Seaman
Vessel Camperdown
Pay book number 88
Relationship Trustee Ellen Chapman
also mentioned on that document is Caroline Ann Dorizac age 6 - baptised Parish Church Chatham
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Similar sounding surname
DRAESEKE
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Dorizas is a Greek name........ however 'zac' is an old Austrailian slang word for a sixpence
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Thanks for the help rosie99, I'd got the dates of birth from censuses, but the GRO records are more accurate.
The 1841 document sounds fascinating - what sort of document is it? And where could I see it? I don't have a Caroline Dorizac, but I think she must be from the first wife. After researching that ship, it seems as though he must have lived with his first wife around Chatham docks, then ended up in Sheppey with Ellen Chapman after the ship traveled there.
iluleah, yes I originally thought Dorizas, the Greek name, could be theirs. However, I also find variations such as Dorizack and Dorzack in Germany, Drizac in France, Doriszak and Darazac in Hungary. So I don't want to make assumptions without knowing for sure, as it could be any of those! I'm thinking that the name could possibly be Prussian?
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Thanks for the help rosie99, I'd got the dates of birth from censuses, but the GRO records are more accurate.
The 1841 document sounds fascinating - what sort of document is it? And where could I see it? I don't have a Caroline Dorizac, but I think she must be from the first wife. After researching that ship, it seems as though he must have lived with his first wife around Chatham docks, then ended up in Sheppey with Ellen Chapman after the ship traveled there.
iluleah, yes I originally thought Dorizas, the Greek name, could be theirs. However, I also find variations such as Dorizack and Dorzack in Germany, Drizac in France, Doriszak and Darazac in Hungary. So I don't want to make assumptions without knowing for sure, as it could be any of those! I'm thinking that the name could possibly be Prussian?
Yes, the good thing is it is just a word used as a name and until the middle of the 20th century spelling was unimportant and many people simply didn't read/write when names were first taken, so it could be spelt many ways depending on ho wrote it along with migration names were spelt how they sounded so a name of another language could be spelt very differently to how it was originally spelt ...........its just a name so just a clue when looking and researching real records will eventually take you back to where it originated ( hopefully)
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Yes, the good thing is it is just a word used as a name and until the middle of the 20th century spelling was unimportant and many people simply didn't read/write when names were first taken, so it could be spelt many ways depending on ho wrote it along with migration names were spelt how they sounded so a name of another language could be spelt very differently to how it was originally spelt ...........its just a name so just a clue when looking and researching real records will eventually take you back to where it originated ( hopefully)
Hopefully! I was hoping it would be an easily identifiable name in the beginning - but clearly not!
I'm wondering which records I could look at to try and find where Peter Dorizac was born? I can't find a baptism for him and his marriage certificate isn't available via the GRO.
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Hi Louisa Dorizac was my great granddmother. I have done some research on the Dorizacs and may have some information you might be interested in. However, I have not found the origin of the name although the family story goes that it was a French protestant name and I have found the name in French records.
Regards
Anne
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Place names ending in -ac are very common in mid-and South- Western France. By connection, it could appear in surnames.
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AC endings also common in polish names
Have you looked at Eastern European possibilities ?
Has anyone of their descendants taken DNA test that might show up a country or region
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I have already found a baptismal record for a Sicaire Dorizac 1763 at St Suplice-de- Roumangnac in the Dordogne although I cannot connect this person to my family tree. His father's surname looks like 'Donzac' and there are other 'Donzacs' in the area. I think one name may be a corruption of the other.
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Familysearch suggests:
Dariosecq
du Rusquec
de Roussac
Dureysseix
Drosec
Durzac
de Raseignac
Duraissac
Du Raysaix
Duraissaix
This surname dictionary may also help
http://jeantosti.com/noms/a.htm
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May be a connection to this ?
Ressigeac Désigne celui qui est originaire de Ressigeac, nom d'un hameau à Sauveterre, dans le Tarn-et-Garonne. Variantes : Ressijac, Ressejac, Ressejeac.
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There is small town/village called Donzac, near Agen south of Bergerac in S/W France. Maybe a link?
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The surname Dorizac is also found in the Hautes-Pyrénées.
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Wow, all this research is amazing, thank you everyone! France is certainly sounding possible. French protestant would also certainly seem plausible for the time. Where are you all finding the French Dorizacs?
I have taken a DNA test which sadly gave no clues, saying I'm 100% English, Scottish and Irish (despite I know for sure I have quite a bit of distant French ancestry from another line). I am 7 generations removed from Peter Dorizac however, so I guess it makes sense that it might not show up.
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There are some on filae.com
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Wow, all this research is amazing, thank you everyone! France is certainly sounding possible. French protestant would also certainly seem plausible for the time. Where are you all finding the French Dorizacs?
I have taken a DNA test which sadly gave no clues, saying I'm 100% English, Scottish and Irish (despite I know for sure I have quite a bit of distant French ancestry from another line). I am 7 generations removed from Peter Dorizac however, so I guess it makes sense that it might not show up.
None of the providers are particularly good at detecting French DNA, but 23andme is probably better than Ancestry. Part of the problem is commercial DNA testing is illegal in France without a court order (i.e. to verify paternity), so the companies have difficulty in obtaining reference samples. I think Ancestry acquired a French university study made a few years ago that used medical samples, but I think they did not realize there was huge immigration from Italy and Spain in the late 19th - mid 20th century so they didn't know they would need to be careful about just picking people out with French sounding surnames, when in certain areas of France, it is quite likely some people could almost half Italian or Spanish from recent ancestry. The other effect of that was a lot of people on Ancestry with known Italian ancestry suddenly became French ::).
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Someone said the Pyrenees
Gabrielle Dorizac born 1742 Campan , Hautes -Pyrenees ,France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campan
Added
another French region - The Dordogne 1763
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGB7-DKPL
you may want to consider the surname DOROSCZAK in Radozyce ,Poland - quote -
Radoszyce was a town from ca. 1370 to 1869 in the county of Konskie ,Poland - I think it is Ukraine now
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Hi is this thread still active. My great great (Think) grandfather on my mother's side was Frederick Charles Dorizac born in Sheerness Kent in 1853, 1855 or 1856 - different references. He jumped ship in Wellington as a 14 year-old ships violinist - captains cabin boy (family lore). He founded the New Zealand and Australian branch of the family. We always believed the name huguenot in origin. I am presently living in France and am interested in following up any leads here.
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My great grandmother was Elizabeth Dorizac who was Frederick's sister. Frederick boarded a ship called Megaera at Sheerness, Kent, England taking the job of Captains cabin boy. This ship was bound for Australia but was shipwrecked in the Indian Ocean. The survivors landed on an island belonging to France called St Pauls. All survived until they were rescued and taken to Australia. I don't know what happened to Frederick after that but I have a record of him being an immigrant to New Zealand and living there until he died in 1945.
I would love to here from you. Perhaps we could piece the rest of the story together. I live in England so not too far from you if you are still in France. One more interesting fact is that the story in our family was also that the Dorizacs were originally French Huguenots who came to England. However I have been to the Huguenot museum in Rochester and they were unable to trace the name in their records.
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harling + melba
its worth re-checking your Ancestry dna results as they are constantly refining categories and french is now included specifically
germanic also turns up quite a lot
also with dna tests you may be able to prove your connections to each other
this topic is interesting : looking forward to reading any further conclusions
my french neice wants to take dna test .her ancestors are from beynac in dordogne region . a lot of the place names there end -ac
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harling + melba
its worth re-checking your Ancestry dna results as they are constantly refining categories and french is now included specifically
germanic also turns up quite a lot
also with dna tests you may be able to prove your connections to each other
this topic is interesting : looking forward to reading any further conclusions
my french neice wants to take dna test .her ancestors are from beynac in dordogne region . a lot of the place names there end -ac
Ancestry has always had a French category, but I know from testing a person of 100% French ancestry, that it isn't very accurate in that it only covers a very small set of samples, and those are likely of French Quebecois, which is a narrow focus as emigration to Quebec was mostly from specific parts of France and hardly any from others. This person's France % has gone from 25% to 55% then back to down to 40%, with most of the rest varying Irish and British categories. It reflects the fact they have vastly more samples from GB and Ireland so these are the closest match for the DNA of many French people that the algorithm recognises. Their closest matches are also very small, about 30cM the largest. So for French people of mostly French descent unfortunately it isn't going to tell you much, unless you have ancestry from other countries or ethnicities where testing is much more common, or groups that recently emigrated to the US/Canada/UK/NZ/Australia etc which represent the highest amount of Ancestry testers.
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If you think there is a Huguenot connection you could always try looking for records in Lausanne as that was where a large population went to. I only found this out when researching my own family tree. I dont think from a DNA perspective you can get accurate French matches as they dont get added to the database.
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If you think there is a Huguenot connection you could always try looking for records in Lausanne as that was where a large population went to. I only found this out when researching my own family tree. I dont think from a DNA perspective you can get accurate French matches as they dont get added to the database.
MyHeritage kits were sold in French supermarkets for many years, but supposedly they have cracked down on it recently. So there are a significant amount of French testers on MyHeritage - I know because you can filter by country and I have seen many French tests as matches. But there are other ways French people who are determined do get hold of DNA tests as described here
https://genealogie-genetique.com/comment-recevoir-un-test-adn-en-france/
Huguenot migration was so long ago, any 'Huguenot DNA' would likely just be detected as whatever the country those emigrants had been most settled in i.e. British, Irish, Dutch, German, Swiss etc. as it would be so dispersed amongst those populations.
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My great grandmother was Elizabeth Dorizac who was Frederick's sister. Frederick boarded a ship called Megaera at Sheerness, Kent, England taking the job of Captains cabin boy. This ship was bound for Australia but was shipwrecked in the Indian Ocean. The survivors landed on an island belonging to France called St Pauls. All survived until they were rescued and taken to Australia. I don't know what happened to Frederick after that but I have a record of him being an immigrant to New Zealand and living there until he died in 1945.
I would love to here from you. Perhaps we could piece the rest of the story together. I live in England so not too far from you if you are still in France. One more interesting fact is that the story in our family was also that the Dorizacs were originally French Huguenots who came to England. However I have been to the Huguenot museum in Rochester and they were unable to trace the name in their records.
Hi Anne, Here I am, still settled in France. How do we make contact apart from posting on roots chat? I will try and attach a photo of grandfather Dorizac. There are Huguenot museum sin the south of France but I haven't tried them yet. Will watch out for a reply. Failed with the photo but will try later.
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Just a bit of info about the NZ Dorizac connection. I came across a piano with that name on it it years ago and find that Leslie Dorizac was a piano tuner. Mrs Google has the following
Les Dorizac was a Wellington-based piano tuner and restorer who also marketed his own piano model, the "Dorizac". He is known for refurbishing a 1955 Steinway upright piano, including installing new hammers sourced from Steinway Germany, according to a Trade Me listing. The Dorizac pianos were mentioned in the context of a larger article about piano retailers selling luxury pianos.
and
a picture:
https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22346630
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That was interesting. Thank you. Leslie Dorizac was a descendant of Frederick Dorizac my ancestors brother who emigrated to New Zealand
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Hi Anne. I will attach a list of notes I have made concerning my mother's side of the Dorizac family. CF (grandfather) Dorizac had seven children. Nelson, the father of Les was a piano tuner and we suspect a porter of Dupuytren's disease that one other male cousin and I have suffered from. Les was an entrepreneur and married a Chinese national, imported pianos from China and had some branded in his name. He was also a record distributor and I will always grateful to him passing me the first Bob Dylan record as well as a French recording of Irma la Douce. My sister and I believe my grandmother, Irma Dorizac, was in fact the daughter of her older sister, Eleanor Elizabeth Elvira, born out of town and more or less brought up by the threesome of grandparents and mother. There are very few male Dorizacs still standing. As far as I know only Raymond , Les's brother, has a son Owen Dorizac b 1950. All the other lines appear to have been shy breeders or drowned in female offspring.
I would be happy to share my documents with you if we can make contact. I live in Pezenas.
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