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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: RRTB on Tuesday 30 June 20 20:27 BST (UK)
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I'm finding it exceptionally hard to trace the war service information about a relative of mine called Atilio (This may be spelt ATTILIO, or he may be registered under the English name Arthur!) Locatelli. He was in the Royal Army Service Corps, regtl number M/350134 and was killed on or after 14 December 1917. As far as we are aware, he fought in the Italian campaign against the Austro-Hungarians.
His medal card shows he was entitled to the War Medal and Victory Medal, but my cousin who is a more direct relative of his tells me that she has two Italian medals (I think they have his name on them). One is the Unification of Italy medal but she hasn't yet identified the second.
I'm basically helping her to research her family because she knows virtually nothing about anyone further back than her mother. I would be very grateful if someone would be willing to see if they can track down any service information about Attilio/Arthur Locatelli, born 1885 in Blackfriars, Middlesex, married to Angele Locatelli née Copin.
Thank you in hopeful anticipation,
RRTB
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Is it coincidence that an Attilio Locatelli born 9 April 1889 (I know the date is different) died in Camberwell in 1969? The appears to be no WW1 death.
So far only the medal records appear.
MaxD
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Did you check freebmd for his birth reg?
1885 - He was registered as Umbarto Attilo Locatelli but his MRI entry is Attilio Locatelli. I can't see an entry for him on www.cwgc.org
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Probate record
Attillio Locatelli known as Arthur of 77 Albert St Regents Park Middlesex died
on or since 14 December 1917 in Italy Admin London 26 Nov to Angele Locatelli widow Effects £210
Suz
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So - different person than in post
1889 birth for Attelio Carlo Locatelli on freebmd - b Fulham
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Thanks all for the rapid replies!
Atilio was killed in action around December 1917 so the guy who died in the 1960s is definitely not him. Thanks, Max! ;)
Suzard: you've got exactly the right man. I actually have that particular piece of info saved in Ancestry but I just cannot trace his military career, short though it was.
CaroleW: No, I haven't checked Freebmd - thanks for that suggestion. I will now be able to try to find Umbarto Attilio Locatelli thanks to your efforts. I'm sorry but I don't understand MRI? Also, thank you for checking the CWGC listing.
We do know that he was killed in action/died somehow during the war because his daughter remembered that she was 6 when he died. That would have made the date between 1916 and 1917, as Anita was born in May 1910.
His grand-daughter (my cousin for whom I'm doing the research) has two Italian medals: the Medaglia dell Guerra and also the Widows medal which was obviously issued to Angele Locatelli. It's interesting that he was awarded both Italian and British medals, yet my cousin does not seem to have the British ones.
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All surname Locatelli
GRO shows 1885 birth as Umberto Attilio - freebmd has Umbarto Attilo - mothers maiden name was Balbiani
Also Luigi Angelo b 1889 - mmn Balbiani
Per GRO - note spelling - Attelis Carto - mothers maiden name was Riva
Also Richard John Matthew Francis b 1888 mmn Riva
1881 Holborn - Luigi Giovanni Locatelli married Rosina Antoinette Balbiani
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Thanks, Carole. Luigi Angelo is definitely Attilio's brother. He also had a sister called Victoria Marie, born in 1882/3.
I'm really stymied about his military service though. Italian medals, a British Medal Card, RASC, died in Italy. Regtl Number M/350134 meaning he was in one of the ASC Motor Transport companies. There were 15 of those which were Divisional Supply Companies and which served divisions, Corps or whatever in Italy in 1916/17 period from what I can find. I wish I could find out which was Attilio's.
RRTB
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Many researchers forget, or are unaware, that both Italy and Japan fought with the Allies in the Great War.
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That's very true - Italy was expected to join the German side before WW1 started. Instead, they remained neutral, only coming in on the Allied side in 1915. The South Tyrol, Trentino and Trieste areas were where they mainly fought as far as I know, with many casualties and prisoners taken especially after the Germans reinforced the Austro-Hungarians.
RRTB
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The Imperial Japanese Navy also conducted operations in the Mediterranean Sea.
My wife has a portrait of her Italian-born grandfather in Australian Army uniform in front of crossed Italian and British flags with the header “For the honour of both”. He survived the war and returned to his gold mining claim at Day Dawn, Western Australia. Unfortunately, he never “struck it rich” but mined sufficient gold to bring his family out.
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It is of note that the Medaglia della Guerra was not established until 29 July 1920. It was awarded "in minima parte" - in small numbers" to soldiers of other nations. As the widow has a widow's medal, perhaps she applied and was awarded both??
His British medal records don't have any indication that the medals were not delivered to his next of kin.
Was the widow in UK during and after the war is it known?
A puzzle indeed.
MaxD
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Hi Max,
Attilio and Rosa (Rosina) were living in Middlesex in 1911 according to the census, so yes she would have been therefore living in England in 1920. Attilio was born in Blackfriars of Italian parents who were themselves born in Italy.
I've been trying to find out a bit more about the widows' war medal but so far it has escaped me. I am assuming that it's something like the Death Penny but whether or not it was issued by the Italian military to her along with her husband's own War medal I don't know.
My cousin's mum (Attilio's daughter) didn't really know much about her father's or mother's background. It's actually a very complicated set-up involving Dutch, German, French and Italian links!!
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This must be the widows' medal:
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C134610#:~:text=Instituted%20by%20a%20royal%20decree%20of%2024%20May,of%20the%20Legislative%20Council%20of%20New%20South%20Wales.
MaxD
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Hi Max,
Actually, the one which my cousin has is this version.
This one is the Unification of Italy commemorative version, but the one you posted might be a specific Mothers/Widows one, especially with the wording which attaches to it.
I also just realised that I said in my last post that Attilio was married to Rosa. That should have read Angele; Rosa was his mum!
RRTB
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Looking at an Italian medal forum, the suggestion is that the National Association medal was a commercial produced item whereas the one described on the Aus site is an official government medal. Need to revisit this though, drag up my rusty Italian and join the forum perhaps!
MaxD
https://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=59507760
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Thanks for that - just had a read through with my rusty Italian and yes, it does suggest it was a commercial thing but I think I gleaned that it became more official. A re-read with a dictionary might be in order!
R
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Hi
I think I have just found him on the database for Italian soldiers who died in the great war (cadutigrandeguerra).
Locatelli Atilio di (son of) Luigi
Sergente 8e reggimento fanteria, nato il 22 gennaio 1884 Londra ed inscritto di leva nel commune di Lecco, distretto militare di Lecco, disperso il 14 dicembre 1917 sul Monte Grappa in combattimento.
http://www.cadutigrandeguerra.it/CercaNome.aspx
Regards
Svenja
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Buon lavoro Svenja - complimenti, questo spiega tutto!!
That explains the Medaglia della Guerra and the widows' and mothers' medal , he fought as an Italian infantryman.
I suggest the basic error, and the trap that I fell into also, is that the ASC medal card has been accepted as "your" Atilio whereas it is far more likely that it belonged to the one I queried back at the beginning, the one born 1889 with the name spelled Attilio on the medal records and on the 1969 death register.
MaxD
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Svenja, grazie molto! My cousin will be absolutely bowled over by your discovery. I cannot wait to tell her, even though it is obviously a sad piece of news.
Max, I think you're right - the ASC medal card probably does refer to the other Attilio Locatelli.
Roger.
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Next step perhaps Roger to see if the original document is still in Lecco, this office looks like the right place to start?
https://www.oraridiapertura24.it/filiale/Lecco-Comune%2520di%2520Lecco%2520%2528Ufficio%2520Leva%2520Militare%2529-149869H.html
Max
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Yes, yes it does.
I might see if Vonny will take this one on, but I think I know what her answer will be!
Roger
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Better brush up your Italian!!
Max
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Ma veramente!
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Hi
Today I discovered that on antenati, at least for the
Archivio di Stato di Vicenza, sezione di Bassano del Grappa
there are death records of the time of WWI online.
There are also some death records of Italian soldiers (recorded in their hometowns).
I read some of this records and they mention not only the place of death
but also the cause of death and the place of burial.
Unfortunately I didn't find your Locatelli Atilio in Bassano del Grappa.
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/?q=gallery
Regards
Svenja
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Thank you for that effort, Svenja. We have come to the conclusion that Atilio is probably one of the thousands of "missing" soldiers with no known grave, especially when you consider the type of terrain and environment that Monte Grappa was.
It's very sad that your valiant effort hasn't managed to reveal what my cousin would really love to know, but as I said she has pretty much accepted that she will probably never know for sure.