RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: forest on Friday 26 June 20 15:59 BST (UK)
-
Still hoping someone else may be following the line of John WILLIAMS b circa 1791/2 in the St.Lukes/St.Leonards area. I believe John married Sarah HORNE in 1811 in St.Leonards as one of their sons was named William Horne Williams. In 1829 they were living in Tenter Row, St.Leonards as shown on several of their childrens' baptism entries and John was shown as a Watch Finisher.
I'd love to know whether anyone has been able to go further back and to share info.
Thanks, Forest
-
Have you checked surnames interest board?
-
Banns may have been read at St Lukes but the marriage record below.
John Williams married Sarah Horne St Leonard, Shoreditch 25 Dec 1811
John signed, Sarah X. both single, of the parish
Witnesses Thomas Horne & Sarah Chadwick both signed
Colin
-
I'm not sure if you have this census but it looks like the family?
1841 - St Leonard Shoreditch – all born Middlesex
John Williams 50
Sarah Williams 45
Sarah Williams 20
Elizabeth Williams 15
Eliza Williams 14
Henry Williams 5
William Williams 10
Rebecca Williams 15
Colin
-
I'm not sure if you have this census
Yes, they have all census
Baptism Look-up 1791 Hackney/Islington please
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=407592.msg2754068
I am hoping to find the baptism of John WILLIAMS in either St.Lukes, Islington or St.Leonard, Hackney.
Censuses in 1841, 1851 and 1861 give his age as 50, 61 and 70, so I assume he was born 1790/2.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
forest
-
1851 in St Luke
John Williams, 61, Watch Finisher, born Middx St Luke
piece 1520 folio 229 page 42
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGN8-4HJ
1861 in St Luke
John Williams, 70, Watch Finisher, born Middx St Luke
piece 201 folio 38 page 19
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-BRPN
-
Possible death?
Dec 1869 Holborn 1b 509
Williams, John
age 79
Burial City of London & Tower Hamlets Cemetery
4 October 1869
John Williams
Charles Street City Road
age 79
Possible death
Sep 1866 St Luke 1b 479
Williams, Sarah
age 73
Burial City of London & Tower Hamlets Cemetery
23 Aug 1866
Sarah Williams
Charles Street Goswell Road
age 73
-
Likes the Elizabeth name
Baptism, 23 Jany 1823, St Sepulchre
Elizabeth Frances
Dr. of John + Sarah Williams
No. 4 Shoe Lane
Father a Watch Finisher
25 July 1830, St Mary Islington
Eliza
John + Sarah Williams
Field Court
Father a Watch Finisher
born 16 April 1826
-
A number of possible baptisms, how to say which, if any, might be the right one?
In addition to CoE baptisms, there is also one at City Road, The Tabernacle (Independent), 12 Jany 1790
John son of George Williams, Tin Plate Worker, St. Luke Old Street, and Elizabeth, his Wife
born 13 October 1789
At St Luke Old Street in 1792, John, Son of John Williams, Engraver, + Sarah, born 16 Dec, bap 25 Dec.
etc.
-
A possibility...
John Williams, born 19 Dec 1792, baptised 25 Dec 1792, St Luke Old Street Finsbury, s/o John & Sarah.
Also of interest.... Freedom of the City Admission Papers, John Williams, son of John Williams, citizen and clockmaker of London, admitted 2 May 1796.
Jo :)
-
A possibility...
John Williams, born 19 Dec 1792, baptised 25 Dec 1792, St Luke Old Street Finsbury, s/o John & Sarah.
Oh my god, I posted that already.
-
Thank you so much all of you who have replied to my post. I do already have some of the information but was fascinated to see the baptism registrations for Elizabeth Frances and Eliza because on the London, England CofE Births and Baptisms 1813-1917 there are baptism entries at St.Leonards (pp21/22) on 30 March 1834 for Elizabeth b.20/12/1822, Sarah b.26/7/1820 and Esther b.26/12/1833 all with parents John & Sarah Williams, he a watch finisher, living at Tenter Row. The dates don't allow for this to be a second Elizabeth after the death of another so maybe they had fogotten she had already been baptised!
The two baptism entries for John are both possibilities, particularly perhaps the Engraver father and I will try to follow up the Freedom of the City papers and the death entries. Nightmare name to have to deal with!
-
Avoiding the name, Williams, I’ve been looking into Sarah.
As a Thomas Horne signed their wedding certificate, I wondered if she might be the daughter of the Thomas and Rebecca who both died in 1824 in St.Luke.
A lucky find! The will of Thomas Sayers Horne 1824 is hard to read, but I can make out “Sarah the wife of John Williams”.
-
The only site I can see this on is Family Search.
Baptism of Sara Horn 1793 St.Sepulchre Newgate
Parents Thomas and Rebecca
I think they could be the Thomas Horne and Rebecca Everett (widow) who married at St.Leonard’s in 1802. Maybe they couldn’t marry earlier because Rebecca’s first husband was still alive.
-
Many thanks for that Lily. I've looked at the Horne data and Thomas & Rebecca are certainly possibilities - John & Sarah named one of their daughters Rebecca. Sarah's birth is on Ancestry under Births, Baptisms and Christenings - I do find it annoying that you sometimes have to search so many lists on Ancestry.
Sadly Thomas didn't include his middle name of Sayers in the marriage registration but if that is him then his parents seem to be John Horne and Ann Sayers who were married in 1756 at St.Mary, Islington. Interestingly John is shown as a Jeweller - so the families both appear to be involved in the local trade.
Thanks again for your interest.
-
Are you able to read Thomas Horne’s 1824 will? I can’t make it out. If it says that the Sarah married to John Williams is his daughter, I suppose that confirms that matter.
-
Really difficult and not possible to enhance. It looked as if there was a mention beginning on the second page of "William Horne (possibly a son?) and Sarah (wife of John Williams) share and share alike...." It goes on to mention, I think, administrations and assigns and "the respective nature and qualities thereof." Then he names executors. It would have been helpful to see the first part and whether his wife is mentioned.
-
This looks like them. Rebecca died just three months before Thomas.
Buried at St.Lukes
22nd February 1824 Rebecca Horne of John’s Row. Age 63
23rd May 1824 Thomas Sayer Horne of John’s Row. Age 64
-
Thanks Lily. That helps to confirm that it was Thomas SAYER Horne who married Rebecca.
-
Are you able to read Thomas Horne’s 1824 will? I can’t make it out.
Can download it for free from TNA at the moment. Previewing it with their image viewer, it might be more readable than on ancestry.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D167816
-
Ooh, good idea jon. I’ll leave that for forest. No point in us all downloading it at once.
-
Phew! Thank you so much for pointing me to National Archives. Yes, much clearer (although the jargon as always proved difficult) and, as thought, after the usual directions that all funeral expenses etc be paid he gives and bequeaths all the residue both real and personal equally between his two children, son William Horne and Sarah (wife of John Williams) equally share and share alike and to their heirs, Executors, Administrators and Assigns according to the respective nature and qualities thereof he appoints his friends to be Executors of his Will made on 9th April 1824. No mention of his wife, of course, because she had already passed away.
Many thanks to everyone who has helped to pass most of a day of this boring lockdown! Very much appreciated.