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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: brinda on Friday 26 June 20 15:31 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm hoping this won't be too difficult for one of you out there, the handwriting itself is fairly neat - unfortunately for me, it's not just the handwriting that's the issue, it's that's it's in German. I've tried with Google translate but I think it's time to admit defeat and ask for help on this one.
It is (I believe) a baptismal record. I will post the a clip of the printed log book column headers along with the handwritten/filled in information for clarity sake. There are two parts posted as I split it into two pieces (it was originally written across two pages). Hopefully, that makes sense.
And thank you in advance to anyone who is willing to take a stab at it!
NB: Attachments in next post, I'm having trouble posting them so please stay tuned...
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And the attachments...
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I’ve not had much luck reading this either but the first section is the four godparents. I can’t read it all but the last words of the first godparent seem to be Martin Meyer, Hannover. The second godparent also has the surname Meyer and lives in Hamburg or Heimburg. Godparent three, possibly Magdalena? , surname Sander, and lives in Chemnitz and godparent four has the surname Hoffmann and lives in Magdeburg.
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Hi Liam59,
I was really struggling putting a first name, last name and city together. While, I was fairly sure this column was a listing of the "godparents" (so the people are likely relatives and/or very close family friends), I could only make out bits and pieces of it - never a whole name and a city together. Your reading definitely gives me a few new avenues to pursue. And, yes, I agree - I also think that is "Magdelena" - I think the baby has Magdalena in her name too, so more clues to pursue there as well.
Btw, this family is quite the mystery so one these names just could be the piece that starts to put this puzzle together... Fingers crossed.
Thank you for taking the time to take a look, it's very much appreciated! : )
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1st Column
27 December
2nd Column
Kurtze
Eleonore Magdalena
Katharina Josy
3rd Column – Parents
amerikanische Konsul a. D. Katl Friedrich (retired American Consulate)
Moritz Ludwig Kurtze und dessen Ehe- ( and his wife)
frau Maria Elisabeth Josepha, geb(orene) ( nee)
Meyer
Hannover, Ifflandstrasse 7
4th Column – Paten / Godparents
1. Leutnant a. D. Martin Meyer (retired lieutenant)
Hannover
2. Unverehlelichte Katharina Meyer (spinster)
Heimburg i. H(essen)
3. Unverehlelichte Magdalene Sander
Chemnitz
4. Ehefrau Eleonora Hoffmann
Magdeburg
5th Column - Birth
13
Juli
1921
6th Column – Bemerkung / Remarks
Haustaufe durch P.(astor) emerit(iert) (Home baptism by the retired Priest)
Willrich-Hannover mit
Dimissoriale des Pfarramtes (Dimissorial letter from the pastorat)
der Pauluskirche
4. Paten eingetragen mit (4 Godparents registered with)
ephoraler Genehmigung (ephoral permission)
7th Column Kirchenbuchführer / clerk
E Evers
28 December
1921
Regards
Dave
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Dave!
There is SO much packed in there - and it even confirms information I have about them too!
I think you have super human powers.
And I have a very busy weekend ahead of me...
I'm amazed.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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No problem. Glad to help
You possibly spotted the mistake
The american consulate should read Karl and not Katl
Dave
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Hi Dave,
A couple points of clarification, only if you have a moment though...
With regard to:
"Unverehlelichte Katharina Meyer, Heimburg i. H(essen)"
- Is the first word, "Unverehlelichte," the word that signifies "spinster?" Therefore, the same would apply to Unverehlelichte Magdalene Sander of Chemnitz - meaning she would be a spinster as well?
- And is the "Heimburg i. H(essen)" referring to her city? Heimburg makes complete sense for the family but the i. H(essen) is more mysterious to me. Do you happen to have an idea of what the i/H means - would it be (roughly) "in Hessen?"
And with regard to:
Home baptism by the retired Priest "Willrich-Hannover mit..." a dimissorial letter from the pastor.
- Am I reading it correctly that the Priest's name is Willrich, and he is from St. Paul's Church of Hannover?
Btw, I ask because I have a suspicion that the "retired priest" maybe related to the family so I'm trying to focus my search accordingly. I'm wondering if the family member/retired pastor received special permission from the current pastor (i.e. Willrich) to officiate. On the first blush, I was reading it as Willrich was the officiating pastor but now I'm reading it as he is the official pastor that's granting special permission for the home baptism. Anyway, I'm getting into the weeds now...
And as for as "Katl," I recognized immediately that it was merely a typo - even superheroes make typos : ) No worries, there.
Anyway, I realize you're here for the translation and not interpretations but if you have any thoughts about those questions, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Best regards,
Brinda
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Hi Brinda,
Maybe I can help a little here. Dave has done all the hard work. :)
With regard to:
"Unverehlelichte Katharina Meyer, Heimburg i. H(essen)"
- Is the first word, "Unverehlelichte," the word that signifies "spinster?" Therefore, the same would apply to Unverehlelichte Magdalene Sander of Chemnitz - meaning she would be a spinster as well?
That is absolutely correct. They used Unverehelichte to denote spinster, as opposed to Ehefrau, a married woman.
- And is the "Heimburg i. H(essen)" referring to her city? Heimburg makes complete sense for the family but the i. H(essen) is more mysterious to me. Do you happen to have an idea of what the i/H means - would it be (roughly) "in Hessen?"
I can't be 100% sure, but I was wondering whether the i/H might actually mean im Harz, not in Hessen. There is a tiddly place called Heimburg in the Harz region. It's about an hour south of where we live, and we often drive to the Harz to go for walks (with woofer :) ).
I am afraid I don't know the answer to the question regarding the retired priest. Maybe Dave can help us with that one...
Best regards,
Karen
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Hi Karen - nice to see you and thank you so much for jumping in!
So - as long as your here, in your opinion, do you think it would it be fair to assume the "spinsters" would have their maiden respective names, and the Ehefrau would have her married name? I realize that's more of a common sense question than a German/English question, I suppose I'm just looking for a second option on that point really.
Btw, yes, these people are definitely from the Harz region, so your suggestion would make perfect sense. Hmmm, I think I'll look at some of the other nearby baptismal records - maybe I can confirm with with similar entries... But in the meantime, it seems like a very likely assumption.
As for the region, I've only seen photographs of that area of Germany but the Harz mountains look particularly beautiful and pristine - especially for hiking. [By the way, my two woofers would be incredibly jealous of your woofer's hikes! What a lucky pup - is that him/her in your profile photo? He's beautiful, so regal.]
Well, between you and Dave and Liam, I've made leaps and bounds narrowing these people down. They're still mysterious to me but lot's of new leads to pursue, so we'll see.
I appreciate you chiming in -
Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
-Brinda
ps: This is a bit random, but speaking of the Harz region, any chance you are familiar with a town/village named Hahausen?
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Am I reading it correctly that the Priest's name is Willrich, and he is from St. Paul's Church of Hannover?
Hi Brinda
The retired Pastor Willrich from Hannover received special permission for the home baptism from the
pastorat of the St. Paul's Church
regards
Dave
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Heimburg im Harz is quite plausible
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/10757060
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Thank you for the clarifications - as always, they are very helpful.
And great link too!
Best regards,
Brinda
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Hi Brinda,
do you think it would it be fair to assume the "spinsters" would have their maiden respective names, and the Ehefrau would have her married name? I realize that's more of a common sense question than a German/English question, I suppose I'm just looking for a second option on that point really.
That is how it would be. They will be the names they were using at the time of the event taking place, i.e. maiden names for the spinsters, and the married surname for the married lady (Hoffmann). There was no need for the maiden names of married witnesses/godparents to be recorded, so we can't know (from this document) what Eleonora's maiden name was.
Btw, yes, these people are definitely from the Harz region, so your suggestion would make perfect sense. Hmmm, I think I'll look at some of the other nearby baptismal records - maybe I can confirm with with similar entries... But in the meantime, it seems like a very likely assumption.
As for the region, I've only seen photographs of that area of Germany but the Harz mountains look particularly beautiful and pristine - especially for hiking. [By the way, my two woofers would be incredibly jealous of your woofer's hikes! What a lucky pup - is that him/her in your profile photo? He's beautiful, so regal.]
Alasdair is indeed absolutely gorgeous. (Thanks!) Not always regal, unfortunately, but in his defence, the poor lad was nearly beaten to death as a young dog in Spain - and still bears a great many scars, both physical and emotional. He is the centre of our universe and we do our very best for him.
What kind of pups do you have?
The Harz region is stunning. As I mentioned, we live less than an hour away and are often there. In fact, our last 2 holidays were spent there. The neighbours think we're mad, booking a holiday apartment for 2 weeks in a place less than an hour from here, ::) but it is simply wonderful there. And if we forget something, we can come home and get it. ;D Last summer, we came home on the middle weekend, cut the grass, sorted some clothes out and went back to the holiday apartment for another week. I think it's great. And Ali loves it there, too.
ps: This is a bit random, but speaking of the Harz region, any chance you are familiar with a town/village named Hahausen?
Hahausen is a blink-&-you'll-miss-it place - it is miniscule. Do you have relatives from there?!
Best regards,
Karen