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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: gnorman on Thursday 25 June 20 22:13 BST (UK)
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Hi Rootschatter's,
this is possbily a tough one to find anything on. One of my relatives, Elizabeth Hogan lists her father as being Thomas Hogan, a shoe maker, on her marriage certificate:
1885 - Marriage solemnized at St Peter’s,
in the district of Bolton, 11th July 1885
Groom: Mark Dale, bachelor Age: 22 years
Profession: Striper and Grinder Address: 21 Water Street, Bolton
Grooms father: Mark Dale Profession: Gentleman
Bride: Elizabeth Hogan, spinster Age: 22 years
Profession: Not Given Address: 25 Water Street, Bolton
Bride’s father: Thomas Hogan (DECEASED)
Profession: Shoe Maker Witnessed by: Nathanial & Sarah Fletcher
I have no other information for Thomas or for any other children he may have had. The earliest record I have of Elizabeth is this census record:
1881 Census, 3rd April
Address: Reused Gardens (?), Bollington, Cheshire
Name: Elizabeth Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 25 years Relation to Head of House: Wife Occupation: N/A
Name: Mark Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 25 years Relation to Head of House: Head Occupation: Cotton Operative
Name: Sarah Ann Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 3 years
Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: N/A
Name: Thomas Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 5 years
Relation to Head of House: Son Occupation: Scholar
I thought he may be in a directory somewhere as a shoe maker but I've come up with nothing so far.
Please could anyone help at all?
Thank you for your time, Luke
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1881 census?? Do you mean 1891? Married 1885.
If she was born Cheshire - shouldn't you have posted on the Cheshire board? Subject header is misleading - should be Hogan of Cheshire
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Don't forget she may have made up a father's name when she got married so there is no Thomas Hogan to find.
However finding her as a child and/or her birth registration would be something to start with.
Have you looked for her birth?
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What is her birthplace in 1901 & 1911?
Birthyear on marriage 1863 - birthyear 1891 = 1866
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Sorry, I obviously wasnt looking and thinking properly (it has been a long day) - is there a way of moving the thread over?
1901 Census:
Address: 15 Halle Street, Oldham
Name: Mark Dale Place of Birth: Congleton Age: 47 years
Relation to Head of House: Son Occupation: Railway Goods Warehouse
Name: Elizabeth Dale Place of Birth: Ashton Age: 35 years Relation to Head of House: Wife Occupation: N/A
Name: Elizabeth Dale Place of Birth: Oldham Age: 15 years
Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: Card Room Tenter
Name: Albert Dale Place of Birth: Oldham Age: 13 years Relation to Head of House: Head Occupation: Cotton Piecer
Name: Agnes Dale Place of Birth: Oldham Age: 4 years
Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: N/A
Name: Herbert Dale Place of Birth: Ashton Age: 3 years
Relation to Head of House: Head Occupation: N/A
1911 Census;
Address: 9 Sun Street, Oldham (4 Rooms)
Name: Mark Dale Place of Birth: Congleton, Cheshire Age: 50 years
Relation to Head of House: Head Occupation: Card room Grinding
Place of Work: Not Given Number of Years Married: 25
Number of Children Born: 5 Number of Children Living: 5
Name: Elizabeth Dale Place of Birth: Ashton Under Lyne Age: 44 years
Relation to Head of House: Wife Occupation: N/A
Place of Work: At Home Number of Years Married: 25
Name: Agnes Dale* Place of Birth: Ashton Under Lyne Age: 14 years Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: Little Tenter
*Later became Agnes Maddon, living at 9 Sun St in 1923 with Father
Name: Herbert Dale Place of Birth: Stockport, Cheshire Age: 12 years Relation to Head of House: Son Occupation: School / Cotton Spinner
Name: Bertha Dale Place of Birth: Oldham, Lancashire Age: 8 years Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: School
Name: Albert Dale Place of Birth: Oldham, Lancashire Age: 23 years Relation to Head of House: Son Occupation: Soldier - Away
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1881 Census, 3rd April
Address: Reused Gardens (?), Bollington, Cheshire
Name: Elizabeth Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 25 years Relation to Head of House: Wife Occupation: N/A
Name: Mark Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 25 years Relation to Head of House: Head Occupation: Cotton Operative
Name: Sarah Ann Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 3 years
Relation to Head of House: Daughter Occupation: N/A
Name: Thomas Dale Place of Birth: Bollington, Cheshire Age: 5 years
Relation to Head of House: Son Occupation: Scholar
That family can't have married in 1885 after the census if she was 22 when she married
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I don't suppose it's Morgan is it for the surname not Horgan, only the daughter on that 1881 has mothers name Morgan?
Or is that a different family......sorry if confused.
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Bolton is in Lancashire but you are looking for the family of a person you say was born in Cheshire.
1891 census shows her as Eliza aged 25 birthplace Bollington but with a 14yr old son??
1901 & 1911 she is born Ashton Lancashire
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Freebmd & www.lancashirebmd.org.uk confirm her surname as Hogan
However Mark Dale married Elizabeth Morgan March qtr 1874 Macclesfield - see freebmd
John Thomas b 1876 & Sarah Ann 1878 - mmn Morgan
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I have the death certificates for Mark and Elizabeth at 9 Sun Street from a distant family member so I iknow the 1911 Census must be correct - the marriage I found online
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I don't suppose it's Morgan is it for the surname not Horgan, only the daughter on that 1881 has mothers name Morgan?
Or is that a different family......sorry if confused.
I was having the same thoughts as Milliepede
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Yes - but the 1881 entry you quoted is not the correct Elizabeth.
You say they married in 1885 & Elizabeth was b Bollington per 1881?
Elizabeth Morgan was b Bollington but Elizabeth Hogan was b Ashton Lancs as per 1891 entry after marriage
Mark Dale was not a bachelor in 1885
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On FreeBMD
Marriage Mark Dale to an Elizabeth Morgan reg dist Macclesfield March 1/4 1874 vol 8a page 215
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See my reply 8. The wife on the 1881 entry is Elizabeth Morgan & the 2 children on the 1881 entry have mmn Morgan
Mark Dale was married twice
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Thank you everyone.
Do you think that Mark was married twice or that this is two different Mark's?
I'm just thinking that the wedding certificate lists them both as being aged 22 and Mark as a bachelor - do you think he changed this or its a different person?
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I would compare both marriage certificates.
Is there a death for the 1881 wife?
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1861 has a Mark Dale age 6 son of Mark Dale silk ribbon weaver - could he be the one who married in 1874?
That one was born Congleton Cheshire.
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See my reply 8. The wife on the 1881 entry is Elizabeth Morgan & the 2 children on the 1881 entry have mmn Morgan
Mark Dale was married twice
It would seem that the two children appear on 1891.
John Thomas is with his father Mark Dale and Elizabeth Hogan
Sarah Ann is with grandparents Mark and Fanny in Bollington. 1891 2809/6
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Maybe first wife didn't die so that's why he said bachelor not widower when he married again.
Ancestors do like to confuse us don't they.
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1911 shows Elizabeth Dale b Bollington in an institution - probably the Workhouse.
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hello
if you type in Albert Dale b1888 give or take 1 yr on ancestry the family are there 91 ,1901, 1911.
parents ages out a couple of years. married 25 years
children are all on gro mmn Hogan.
lee
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Thank you guys, this is all a big help with a confusing branch of the tree.
Cheers, Luke