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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: aidansrest on Wednesday 24 June 20 16:18 BST (UK)

Title: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Wednesday 24 June 20 16:18 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm looking for the baptism, of a conclusive birth registration for:

James Dickson born c 1837 in Liverpool.

He married Mary Ann Greenfield in Liverpool on the 25th September 1862, naming his father, when he did so, as Thomas Dickson, a joiner - James himself was a plasterer.

I cannot find him at all for certain in 1841, but by 1851, he was lodging with James and Thomas Glover, brother's from Scotland - he is named as their nephew.
James and Thomas' parents were Walter Glover and Janet Brown and they had been born in Liberton, Midlothian.
Walter and Janet also had a daughter, Jane, baptised on the 28th July 1798, so I thought, perhaps, she was James' mother.
However, cannot find any trace of a marriage bewteen a Thomas Dickson and a Jane Glover.

Any ideas anyone??

Thanks

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 June 20 16:32 BST (UK)
1841 Hurst St Liverpool has Jane Dixon with son James age 5 in household with Thomas Glover (30) & James (35) Glover - It is possibly a boarding house as there are lots of people - Jane is 40 bn Scotland

HO107/566 bk20 p18

ADDED Just looked at the original Thomas/James Glover are one household Jane/James Dixon another. Janes occupation is Housekeeper.  There are a few other families in the property
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: hol on Wednesday 24 June 20 17:31 BST (UK)
there is a baptism for a James 7th August 1837,Liverpool.
Parents Thomas and Sarah address Rose Place fathers occupation Plasterer.
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 14:12 BST (UK)
Hi All

Its a difficult one to suss out, as I suspect that James may have been born prior to July 1st 1837, but his presence in the Glover household in 1851 (as a nephew), and his father's name, Thomas, on his marriage certificate, in theory, should make the quest for his parents easier.....but it doesnt!

Thanks for all your help anyway, much appreciated

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 14:17 BST (UK)
Have you discounted the 1841 census that I posted  :-\
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 14:21 BST (UK)
Hi

No, I do believe that that is the right James in 1841 - I just can't find a marriage between a Dickson (Dixon) and a Glover, or for that matter, anymore children, other than James grrr....
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 14:40 BST (UK)
I think that the naming of his father when he married is suspect.  His uncle Thomas (Glover) was a Joiner, perhaps he just used his name/occupation.
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 14:41 BST (UK)
Hmmm..perhaps you are right, never thought of that!

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 14:43 BST (UK)
Is still does not help to find Jane after 1841 or her 'marriage' though.   :)

Who were the witnesses to James marriage
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 14:46 BST (UK)
Hi

Witnesses were
Mary Ann Kilbride (from the family he was lodging with in 1861)
Michael Gallagher

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 14:55 BST (UK)
Thank you.  No help then.

Sorry I am no good with Liverpool area, there is this burial in Low Hill Cemetery
Jane Dixon
Age   46
Death 13 Apr 1847
Burial 16 Apr 1847
From the Infirmary
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 15:06 BST (UK)
Thanks for trying!

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 15:12 BST (UK)
 :-\
Gloucester Street Chapel, Liverpool
Born Sep 18 1836
Bapt Oct 16 1836
James son of Joseph and Jane Dixon
Abode Trefall Street
Fathers occupation Joiner
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Thursday 25 June 20 15:15 BST (UK)
Wow! Thank you, looks promising!

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 June 20 15:24 BST (UK)
That James is here in 1841 so I think we may have to rule him out (Sorry)

HO107/567 bk8 f45 p5  - Toxteth Park
Joseph Dixon 35 occ Joiner Not born in County   
Jane   Dixon 35 Not bn in County   
John   Dixon 13 Born in County   
James Dixon 4   Born in County   
John   Greenshields   Male   86   1755   Scotland
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: hol on Thursday 25 June 20 15:29 BST (UK)
1861 still with Joseph and Jane  parent born Cumberland and Wales
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 25 June 20 16:43 BST (UK)
James and Thomas' parents were Walter Glover and Janet Brown and they had been born in Liberton, Midlothian.
Walter and Janet also had a daughter, Jane, baptised on the 28th July 1798, so I thought, perhaps, she was James' mother.

Where are you seeing Thomas and James as the children of Walter and Janet?  Their daughter Janet married William BORTHWICK and stayed in Liberton. 

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 25 June 20 17:18 BST (UK)
The image

for James’ baptism says he was born 22 July 1837. The baptism was at St Peter’s  Liverpool.
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 25 June 20 22:12 BST (UK)
possible 1841 to go with the Thoas & Sarah baptism


Name   Age
Thomas Dixon   30 plasterer
Sarah Dixon   25
Hannah Dixon   9
Robert Dixon   7
James Dixon   4
Alfred Dixon   1
Mary Blackburn   25
Chris Blackburn   8
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 26 June 20 12:23 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Thanks again for everyone's contributions!

I remain convinced that James' mother was a 'Glover', and probably a Jane Glover, as the evidence from the 1851 census definitely confirms that he was Thomas and James Glover's nephew, and that he can 'tentatively' be found with his mother, Jane Dixon (Dickson) on the 1841 census in Hurst Street, Liverpool, within the same household as Thomas and James Glover - Jane, Thomas and James, were all born in Scotland, James Dixon (Dickson), in Liverpool.

Surely, Jane's maiden name must have been Glover, born in Scotland c1800?

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: josey on Friday 26 June 20 12:32 BST (UK)
Jane may have been married before so married a Dick(x)on under another name?
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 26 June 20 13:28 BST (UK)
James and Thomas' parents were Walter Glover and Janet Brown and they had been born in Liberton, Midlothian.
Walter and Janet also had a daughter, Jane, baptised on the 28th July 1798, so I thought, perhaps, she was James' mother.

Where are you seeing Thomas and James as the children of Walter and Janet?  Their daughter Janet married William BORTHWICK and stayed in Liberton. 

Debra  :)

I saw that marriage too
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 26 June 20 13:56 BST (UK)
Yep - discounted that one too - how frustrating!

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 26 June 20 14:15 BST (UK)
Sorry, I am confused.  You mention 'Jane' with the baptism the same date as that of Janet Glover with parents Walter & Janet Glover in Liberton as a possible candidate for Jane Dixon but have discounted that marriage as being the same person.  The William Borthwick marriage names Janets father as Walter.

If William & Janet were still together in 1841 then that would rule her out as James mother.

Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 26 June 20 14:25 BST (UK)
Hi

Sorry, I firstly, and mistakenly thought that Janet Glover (parents Walter and Janet), may have been the Janet Dixon (Dickson), who is James Dickson's mother - I see now that this is not the case.

I still believe her maiden name was Glover, hence her closeness to James and Thomas Glover, but, other than that, am now stumped"

Sue
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 26 June 20 15:18 BST (UK)
Have you proved that James & Thomas Glover are the sons of Walter & Janet, I can see that they do fit in very nicely with the baptisms for that family.  If so we need to be looking at Jane from a different angle

ADDED
I think this may be Walter & Janets son James in 1841, living Liberton
James   Glover   40   bn   Midlothian, Scotland
Elizabeth   Glover   25   bn    Midlothian, Scotland
Walter   Glover   bn    1841   Midlothian, Scotland

Still in Scotland 1861
Title: Re: Baptism or 1841 census?
Post by: bevo on Friday 26 June 20 17:35 BST (UK)
 Unless the 1841 Jane Dickson/Dixon was Thomas Dickson's sister and James' aunt...

Scotlands People don't seem to have a Thomas Dixon/Dickson plus Glover either but I have families from Scotland (Dicksons !) who aren't anywhere to be found on Scotlands People.

The Thomas Glover appears in 1861 as a widower and there's a marriage for Thomas Glover - plasterer - and Mary McLennan in 1825 in Liverpool.