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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: daisynook on Thursday 11 June 20 10:16 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for any information on my great-grandparents William Mather and Sarah Kelly. They were living in Manchester on 1911. A daughter Maria Mather was born in Little Houghton, Bradford in 1891 with father William working as Braid Overlooker and on 1891 Census they were all in Horton with sons Henry and William working as Worsted Spinners and father William a Weaving Overlooker but not the younger children. I also have birth of son William in 1891 in Manchester. So it looks like they were back and forth to Manchester through those years also working in the mills when they were in Manchester. Whole family back in Manchester on 1901 Census but only father William working in the mill as Braid Overlooker.
I'd really like to know where they could possibly be working in which mill in Horton or any other information anyone can find on them.
The name of where they lived varied, sometimes Houghton or Little Houghton sometimes Horton!
Any help appreciated.
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Where does horton in ribblesdale come into this?
It also seems unlikely they sprogged Maria in horton 1891 AND a son in manchester the same year.
1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-8J2Y
1901 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X929-HS6
1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW1W-YHX
Edit WHEN do they appear in the west riding?
As best I can tell,Maria's birth was registered in Chorlton.
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I'm looking for any information on my great-grandparents William Mather and Sarah Kelly. They were living in Manchester on 1911. A daughter Maria Mather was born in Little Houghton, Bradford in 1891
Maria was born 1890 -not 1891
Birth reg FreeBMD
Maria Mather Jun qtr 1890 Bradford reg dist
9b 178
Maria was listed as being 11months old on 1891 census
William was b either late 1880 or early 1881 -
Birth reg FreeBMD
William Mather Mar qtr 1881 Manchester reg district
8d 211
On 1881 census William is listed as age 0
Suz
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Thank you both for the information. The information I had is much the same as you have found. I think that Horton and Houghton are getting confused in different places but Bradford is the nearest town I expect. The same with the exact years of birth for Maria.
I was actually hoping for some information on their jobs and the actual mills they were working.
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I think that Horton and Houghton are getting confused in different places but Bradford is the nearest town I expect. The same with the exact years of birth for Maria.
I was actually hoping for some information on their jobs and the actual mills they were working.
I wouldn't say that Horton -in-Ribblesdale was near Bradford. (In mind of recent events, it's nearer Barnard Castle than it is to Bradford. Nice place to go for a drive to test one's eyesight. I prefer to take a train myself. ;D)
I couldn't find them in 1891.
Have you tried Grace's Guide for their jobs. Local directories?
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I've found the family in 1891 in Horton-in-Ribblesdale by searching for Sarah, born Ireland. Previously I didn't find them in 1891 when I looked for William.
Horton was in Bradford Registration District; apologies. Bradford must have been an enormous district.
Was there a mill in Horton in 1891? Perhaps they travelled to work. There's a Horton history society.
Young William was only 10. He might have been a part-timer.
Father's job of overlooker was a kind of foreman.
There are lists of occupation definitions.
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I think it equally likely they were in Little Horton for Maria's birth in 1890 and then moved to horton in ribblesdale for the 1891 census.
Pauline
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In the 1891 census I would suggest you look at the description of the enumeration district called Horton. It is part of Bradford and includes Little Horton. I think Horton in Ribblesdale is a red herring. The 1891 census sheet for the Mathers makes no reference to Horton in Ribblesdale. The civil parish is simply named as Horton and the municipal ward as Little Horton.
I would also suggest that you google Little Horton. Maps show clearly where it lies in modern day Bradford while Wikipedia has a useful description/ history of the area.
William
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Well, seeing the page makes it perfectly obvious its NOTHING to do with horton in Ribblesdale.
No wonder we had such trouble finding the 1891 census.
Pauline
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Thank you for your help. Pleased that you found the right family. I have had a look at Graces' Guide but I think that's going to be a difficult search. I'm now going to try the Horton genealogy pages. I can see they say that Horton is 2 miles from Bradford. There is also a village called Little Horton which is on one of the census returns.
If I find anything relevant I will come back to you.
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Well, seeing the page makes it perfectly obvious its NOTHING to do with horton in Ribblesdale.
No wonder we had such trouble finding the 1891 census.
Pauline
It's Family Search which has it as Horton-in-Ribblesdale. Bradford is about 30 miles south. I was puzzled how it could have been in Bradford registration district when the 2 places are so far apart.
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Yes, very confusing. I'm still sitting here searching. Just come across on Family Search https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LVZG-QW8 a 1881 Census showing the 3 young daughters living in Horton or Horton in Ribblesdale on the same form, take your pick. No wonder I'm having problems finding them. I believe Quaker Terrace was in Bradford!! Elizabeth was born in Bradford https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LVZG-QW8
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Yes, very confusing. I'm still sitting here searching. Just come across on Family Search https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LVZG-QW8 a 1881 Census showing the 3 young daughters living in Horton or Horton in Ribblesdale on the same form, take your pick.
Have you looked at an image of the census enumerator's book? See Millmoor's advice about the description of the enumeration district. It's usually at the front of the enumerator's book.
I was only going by the transcription of the household on Family Search.
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Local directories?
"White's Directory of Bradford, Halifax, Wakefield, .... and other towns ... being engaged in worsted manufacture ... followed by general trades directory of districts" (1887 15th edition)
Has an index of places. Horton (Great and Little) are under the post town of Bradford.
"Post Office Bradford Directory" 1891 (other years available)
"Kelly's directory of the West Riding of Yorkshire" 1881 (There were various Kelly's Directories for Yorkshire and other editions)
"Directory of Leeds, Bradford" 1854 (I don't know if there were later editions)
"Ibbetson's Directory of Bradford" 1850 (ditto )
"Lund's Bradford Directory" 1856 (ditto)
Several directories with title "Leeds and Manufacturing Districts". Need to look at title page of each to see area included.
Slater's Directories
All above are in Library of University of Leicester Special Collections: Historical Directories of England and Wales. Pages can be viewed.
https://www2.le.ac.uk/library/find/specialcollections
Some may also be in other collections. Some are on pay-to-view sites.
Added. White's Directory includes a street directory for Bradford with business proprietors and tradespersons in each street followed by an alphabetical directory by name.
You could make a list of streets in the neighbourhood of your ancestor's home and begin your search for mills that way. They probably lived within walking distance of work. There might have been a mill in every street.
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List of mills in Bradford in Wikipedia. Arranged in alphabetical order of district. There were about 50 mills in Horton. There's a link to map location for each.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mills_in_Bradford
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Just to say that in the original census for 1891 the family are split between 2 pages - William , Sarah, Henry and William are at the foot of one page with the three younger daughters all at the top of the next page - all at 11 Quaker Terrace.
Here is a useful map from the NLS site which shows the location of Quaker Lane for about 1908 and you can see the position of local mills.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=53.77831&lon=-1.77553&layers=6&b=1
And the 25 inch map for the same period has Quaker Terrace marked - it is not surprisingly a branch off Quaker Lane!
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.77757&lon=-1.77473&layers=168&b=1
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Thank you Millmoor about the 1891 Census being split, that explains it!! Also thanks very much for the maps. I can't quite see Quaker Terrace at the moment but good map of Lane.
Thanks also to Maiden Stone for all the info on the mills. It will take me a little while to study all of them but will keep looking, feel like I'm getting nearer.
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List of mills in Bradford in Wikipedia. Arranged in alphabetical order of district. There were about 50 mills in Horton. There's a link to map location for each.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mills_in_Bradford
Haycliffe Mills on list were written Aycliffe on some maps.
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"White's Directory of Bradford, Halifax, Wakefield, .... and other towns ... being engaged in worsted manufacture ... followed by general trades directory of districts" (1887 15th edition)
Has an index of places. Horton (Great and Little) are under the post town of Bradford.
All above are in Library of University of Leicester Special Collections: Historical Directories of England and Wales. Pages can be viewed.
https://www2.le.ac.uk/library/find/specialcollections
Added. White's Directory includes a street directory for Bradford with business proprietors and tradespersons in each street followed by an alphabetical directory by name.
"White's Directory" 1887 had only 1 entry for Quaker Lane: Murgatroyd, grocer. Quaker Lane was off Southfield Lane. Junction was t 60 Southfield Lane.
I didn't look at any other directories in University of Leicester collection.
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Looking back at an earlier census of Horton, a child of 10/11years could have been expected to have some sort of job within a mill.
Brian
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Yes, I have 2 records of this family having 2 youngest children working in the mill aged 10 and 12, trouble is it doesn't say which mills. I've spent a good part of the day looking for clue's on the University of Leicester site recommended. I have found an interesting Historical Sketch but no mention as yet of the Mathers.
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The census records only give an occupation of the recorded person.
There being an abundance of mills in the Bradford area going to be hard to match up.
Brian
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You might find the Bradford pages on Genuki of interest. The link here is for transcriptions of voting registers. William Mather appears on the electoral roll for Quaker Terrace in 1887 (but not 1886). The 1887 entry also gives a previous address of 6a Woodhead Lane. Quaker Terrace is found in Little Horton ward - Little Horton 2.
https://www.blunham.com/big/eng/YKS//WRY/Bradford/VRBradfordParly1884-1898.html
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Yes, it is hard and I probably won't be able to find which mill but maybe the nearest to Quaker Terrace. Thank you Millmoor for the further address, I hadn't seen that. Will have a look in the morning if I can find where that is.
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Hi , I grew up in Louis ave little Horton many years ago, memory not the best, but there is/was a mill in little Horton lane not far from Quaker lane called Brigella mills, there was also a smaller weaving shed behind the old " black bull" pub. there were heaps of mills in the great Horton rd area. hope this jogs someones memory
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Good morning Bertflo - That's amazing, thanks very much for that info. I will try and find any information on it and get back to you.
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Not surprisingly, like most mills in the north, Brigella Mill is now a carpet warehouse but I have got a picture of it. I can't find as yet if it was a worsted mill. Father William was a Braid Overlooker and wife Sarah was a Braid Tenter (whatever that was) and other places he was an Engine Fitter and Worsted Weaver.
My family came across from Manchester and 2 of the children Maria Mather was born in Little Horton in 1890 and Elizabeth born 1885. I have searched baptism records for them but no luck. I'm not sure how long they were there but I think they were probably renting a place to live. They were still in Horton on 1891 Census. It looks like they were all back in Manchester by 1901 Census.
Lots still left to read!!
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The final year where William Mather appears on the electoral roll in Quaker Terrace is 1892.
William
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Thank you Millmore. I've been searching for a baptism record for Elizabeth or Maria born in Horton. The mother Sarah was a Catholic and all the other children were baptised in Catholic church. I don't know the nearest Catholic church to where they were living so maybe they waited until they got back to Manchester.
Maybe William returned to Manchester early as I have him on 1891 Census as being in Manchester.
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I've been searching for a baptism record for Elizabeth or Maria born in Horton. The mother Sarah was a Catholic and all the other children were baptised in Catholic church. I don't know the nearest Catholic church to where they were living so maybe they waited until they got back to Manchester.
To locate churches in an area, do a search on GENUKI and put Horton, Bradford, Yorkshire, or Bradford, Yorkshire. There should be an inter-active map with coloured markers for every church, a different colour for each denomination. You can also search for churches of a chosen denomination within a set radius. The list of results has the number of miles distant + a map reference. Can then check if a likely church existed at the time and where registers are. GENUKI is a volunteer website so information on each place depends on the volunteers running those pages. I'm familiar with Lancashire pages, not Yorkshire.
Sarah would have arranged her children's baptisms asap, probably within a few weeks of birth. Infant mortality was still high, especially in industrial towns and cities. My great-grandparents, who lived in a Lancashire cotton town, buried 3 babies in the 1890s.
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GENUKI for Bradford.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Bradford#Churches
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Thank you both Maiden Stone and Bumble B for your suggestions. I've had a go at it and I've found the page with all the coloured markers and can see some possible churches St Joseph's RC Church Bradford or the Polish Church. I have found Quaker Lane on the map and St Joseph's is the nearest. Later I will look on the GENUK site.
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The Polish Church may be more modern possibly founded after WW2 to cater for Polish refugees. There were over 1000 Polish people in Bradford after the war. Their priest mysteriously disappeared in 1950s.
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I assume that if the records exist they will be added in time to the Catholic records on FindMyPast which has been building up its collection of RC records for England (more Scottish RC records were added last week - so it is worth keeping an eye open each Friday!).
William
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Not surprisingly, like most mills in the north, Brigella Mill is now a carpet warehouse but I have got a picture of it. I can't find as yet if it was a worsted mill.
There's a photo of Brigella Worsted Mills dated 1928. I found it on Bing images. So it was a worsted mill by 1828.
Brigella Mills has an entry on Yorkshire Industrial Heritage website https://yorkshire.u08.eu/62502
Aerial photo + map. There's space for comments but no comments received.
The list of Bradford mills by Yorkshire Industrial Heritage which is reproduced in Wikipedia has map co-ordinates for each mill. You could practise map-reading and plot them on an old map. :)
Bradford history + selected photos from Francis Frith collection. There was a 5 month strike in Bradford in 1891. Some strikers rioted. Independent Labour Party was founded there 2 years later.
https://www.francisfrith.com/bradford/history
More history + photos of Bradford mills in an article in "Yorkshire Magazine" - "The Industrial History of Bradford - Gallery"
https://www.on-magazine.co.uk/yorkshire/history/industrial-history-bradford-gallery
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Hi Millmoor - that's interesting about there being a strike in the mills in 1891 as that is about the same time that the Mathers left Horton and went back to Manchester, maybe that was the reason.
I have found on GENUKI Bradford Parliamentary Registers for 1886, 1888, 1890, 1891, 1892 Little Horton Ward. The 1886 one shows him at a different address 3 Bakes Street. Perhaps he went there alone without the family to start with.
I have found some detailed info on the mill and it has been the same name since the beginning.
https://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=944470
If you wonder why I've been quiet this morning its because I've come across an excellent website that may help me with my searches https://sites.google.com/site/livinginindustrialbradford/
So back to my searching. Thanks again for all your help.
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Some points to consider re. electoral registers Millmoor replies #22 & 27, Daisynook #35.
Representation of the People Act 1867 (Second Reform Act)
Enfranchised part of the urban male working class in England & Wales.
Representation of the People Act 1884 (Third Reform Act)
After 1885 the occupation franchise was similar in all types of constituency.
"Parliamentary Franchise: - Boroughs: - The Occupation Franchise:
b) Householder - owner or tenant for 12 months previous to 15th July
N.B. Successive Occupation: If 2 or more premises in the same borough ... are occupied in immediate succession, the vote is not thereby lost. If the occupier is omitted from the list, a claim should be sent to the overseer by 20th August, giving particulars of all the premises so occupied."
(Above is from Wiki articles on electoral reform.)
Electoral registers are always out of date due to the gap between compilation and publication.
William Mather may have been enfranchised as a result of 1867 Reform Act or 1884 Reform Act depending on when he qualified as an occupier.
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OK - sorry