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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: footiestuds on Sunday 07 June 20 09:59 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help with any background regarding a great-grandmother Gertrude Stead.
Marriage - Leonard Rice Cole 16th January 1904 - St. Luke The Evangelist Walton on the Hill, West Derby Lancashire
Children - Dora Annie Cole - 4 Nov 1904
Gertrude May Cole - 31 May 1906
Leonard John Mansell Cole - 19 Jan 1908
Joseph William Cole - 9 Sep 1909
The 1911 census states birthplace as Nottingham and the 1939 Register states her date of birth as 21 Nov 1879.
Her father is named on marriage certificate as William Edward Stead - Deceased - Tailor
Her address at time of marriage - 92 Bardsay Road Liverpool and Leonard lived at 98 Bardsay Road. The family resided at number 92 in 1911.
I have possible siblings for her from childrens baptisms, marriage witness and possible passenger list -
Godmothers - Elizabeth Stead - Ada Rossitter (twice)
Witness - Lizzie Stead
Passenger list - Gertrude Cole - departing Southampton - arrival New York 7 Dec 1911 - Sister Helena Hughes 12 Aubrey Terrace Ripple Road Barking
She married a second time, following the death of Leonard in 1940, to William Thompson on 5 Jul 1948.
Apologies for such a long post but I have had no luck in finding any details prior to her marriage so any help with this would be gratefully appreciated
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In 1881 there is a William Stead, b 1850, tailor & outfitter, near Rotherham, with wife Catherine and several children - but no Gertrude there that I can find.
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Welcome to Rootschat
No birth reg for a Gertrude Stead and no entries on any census before 1911 which is suspicious
The only William Edward Stead marriage was 1869 in Kent
No death pre 1904 for a William Edward Stead
The Stead surname seems to be very prevalent in Yorkshire
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Thank you both for replying.
ThrelfallYorky - I've followed William Stead b 1850 back + forward through the census.
The only extremely random thing I can link him to Gertrude with is -
His Mother - Sarah Ann Atkinson had a brother William Atkinson who had a daughter Elizabeth Atkinson. She isn't on the 1881 census with her parents - she could of married?
Here's the extremely random bit -
1881 Census Nottingham York Street Workhouse
Elizabeth Atkinson age 22 Nottingham
Gertrude Atkinson age 12mths Nottingham
Neither of their birth place fits + neither does the idea of William Stead fathering a child with his cousin ? But then again stranger things have appeared!
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The birth registration for Gertrude Atkinson was March qtr 1881
ATKINSON, GERTRUDE -
1881 March Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 338
The baby was 12 days old on the 1881 census
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Thank you rosie99.
I'd already seen that registration but was going by the transcript of her age of 12m on the workhouse census + thinking that workhouse births were possibly not registered or she was born before entry into the workhouse it tied in with her exact DOB.
Thanks again
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Gertrude is certainly elusive, very frustrating for you when you seem to have father's name and full birth date...if correct of course. Did her second marriage certificate have the same details for her father's name and occupation?
I looked at her children's baptisms....the first two in St Francis de Sales in the Walton area of Liverpool , then the next two in St Patricks the other side of Liverpool in Toxteth, then the last two back to St Francis de Sales....to me that is unusual.
I think Godmother Ada ROSSITER may be Ada FITZPATRICK who married Patrick ROSSITER at St Patricks in 1891. She may have been a friend of Gertrude. I looked at Ada's children's baptism to see if Gertrude was a Godmother but no joy there.
Isabelle LANGLEY was Godmother to Hilda COLE in 1914 at St Francis de Sales and the COLE address then was 63 Delamore St. In the 1911 census she has a birth year of 1879 like Gertrude and her address is 61 Delamore St Kirkdale and she has a daughter named Hilda. Isabelle's maiden name is SMITH and her widowed mother is Elizabeth SMITH.
This doesn't help you find Gertrude but connections can provide clues.
good luck with your search
Sue
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Thank you rosie99.
I'd already seen that registration but was going by the transcript of her age of 12m on the workhouse census + thinking that workhouse births were possibly not registered or she was born before entry into the workhouse it tied in with her exact DOB.
Thanks again
That transcription of 12 mths in incorrect. The actual image says 12 days and Elizabeth Atkinson is described as unmarried. The enrty below is also for an unmarried mother with baby age 11 days so the workhouse could also be a home for unmarried pregnant ladies
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I assume as you know the exact date of Gertrude's marriage in 1948 you have the certificate.
Lancsbmd seems to indicate that she married as Cole but with a former name (or fathers surname) of Edwards
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1948
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
THOMPSON * William COLE Gertrude 1948 South Sefton Register Office or Registrar Attended South Sefton BR/18/231
THOMPSON * William EDWARDS Gertrude 1948 South Sefton Register Office or Registrar Attended South Sefton BR/18/231
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Thank you all for your replies.
You've given me more details to look into which as you say Sumi connections can provide clues :)
I haven't got her second marriage certificate, the exact date date + surname was written on the 1939 register. I'll look into the Lancsbmd index - another detail to figure out :)
Hopefully something will pull all this together :)
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Might be worth eating that marriage certificate to see the exact details
I suppose it is possible if she is that Gertrude Atkinson as she was illegitimate she may have been adopted by a Stead family
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Might be worth eating that marriage certificate to see the exact details
Thank you for a lovely image, lancsann, nice to have a chuckle on a miserable, windy day!
TY
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Certificate ordered - hopefully readable not edible ;)
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;D
Brilliant! (Although they could print it on rice paper, I suppose?)
TY
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Might be worth eating that marriage certificate to see the exact details
Thank you for a lovely image, lancsann, nice to have a chuckle on a miserable, windy day!
TY
How on earth did predictive text change that word to eating!!!
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Dunno, but it's done a lot worse to me in the past!
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Still if made people smile it was worth it. We all need extra smiles at the moment
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It made me chuckle :)
I've another query with hope of finding Gertrude (whilst waiting for the certificate)
I am struggling to find her first husband Leonard Rice Cole on the 1901 Census and I have all others for him
Leonard was born 7 Apr 1880 Workington Cumberland - Occupation in 1911 was 'Carter'
Mother died in 1899 + father was in Arlington Street on his own in 1901 + died later that year
I've checked all his siblings but no luck
When they married in 1904 he was living at 98 Bardsay Road and she was at 92.
They then moved to Shallott Street but were back at 92 in 1911
I've tried the 1901 on FindMyPast + the Genealogist but only seem to find the odd numbers upto 49 - they said theres a possibility that the even numbers weren't enumerated or the pages are missing
If anyone can come up with anything that'd be great :)
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Quote - I looked at her children's baptisms....the first two in St Francis de Sales in the Walton area of Liverpool , then the next two in St Patricks the other side of Liverpool in Toxteth, then the last two back to St Francis de Sales....to me that is unusual.
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Leonard was a Carter and could easily have been transferred by the Mersey Dock and Harbour board from Walton - to Toxteth and back again - Liverpool Docks were the busiest in the world at the time - departures to the USA / Canada / Australia / South Afric /India / New Zealand etc ...Leonard would have been a busy man
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Hi garstonite
Thanks for reply. i understand the moving about due to transfers, job etc
What I'm wondering about is their living in Bardsay Road twice and thought maybe one or both of them might have been there in 1901 - if so possibly more clues as to Gertrudes past
Leonard Rice Cole has WW1 Service Medals
Military Year1914-1920
Rank Gunner
CompanyWO 329
Regiment or Corps Royal Garrison Artillery
Regiment Number 292055
Medal Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal
No service record found so far but probably because one of those destroyed ?
Thanks again
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I have Gertrudes 2nd marriage certificate
Register Office District Bootle
3rd July 1948
William Thompson - 70 - Widower - Security Officer, Pool Promoters
Residence - 16 Rogers Avenue Bootle
Father - James Thompson - Deceased - Farmer
Gertrude Cole - 69 - Widow
Residence - 42 Keir Hardie Avenue Bootle
Father - William Edwards - Deceased - Tailor
Witnesses - J W Cole + G Smith
It's definitely our Gertrude - age correct, same address - just another surname for Father!
I've found all possible records for William Thompson including he + his first wife lived 11 doors down from Gertrude + Leonard in 1939 + presumably till his wifes death in 1946
Also Gertrude died in 1956 + is buried in the same grave as Leonard + their youngest son at Kirkdale Cemetery
I've tried all different combos of the surnames but haven't managed to link it all together :(
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I wonder of the registrar just did not hear Gertrude's father's name correctly
William Edward Stead = William Edward(s)
The only birth in Nottingham in the dec qtr 1879 with an unmarried mothers name is Gertrude Dakin but there is a Gertrude Daykin death 18890 in Basford so probably not
Maybe Gertrude was an adopted child and her name was completely changed from her birth name
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Thanks Lancsann. I thought that a possibility too but can't figure how she married as Stead the first time around
As you say it's possible she was adopted
Hopefully something will link up somewhere
Thanks again :)
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The Gertrude Cole on the passenger list 1911 is not your Gertrude if you go to page 2 she is going to join her husband John Cole.
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What was her age on the marriage certificate, because if she was born 21 Nov according to the 1939 Register, then her age in 1911, and that given by her family on her death suggests Gertrude ought to have been born in 1878.
Godmothers - Elizabeth Stead - Ada Rossitter (twice)
Witness - Lizzie Stead
Lizzie Stead was a witness to the marriage? And may be the Elizabeth Stead who was godmother to the first child?
In which case there must be a relevant Elizabeth Stead about somewhere!
Free index to 1911 census has an Elizabeth Stead, 31, born Nottingham, a cook in Neston Cum Parkgate on the Wirral, so not far from Gertrude
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW3F-5SF
No other sign of such an Elizabeth, and, of course, we don't know that Gertrude really was born in Nottingham.
But a strange baptism entry at Sneinton St Stephen, 11 March 1883, the transcript says Elizabeth, father Stead, and no first names of either parent!
Can you tell us please
Who was the other marriage witness?
Was Leonard's family catholic?
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Thank you both for your replies.
amondg - Thank you for clarifying and ruling out the passenger list
jonw65 - Her age on her 1st marriage certificate was 25 and 69 on her second.
The other witness on her 1st marriage was John Hodgson Cole, Leonard's older brother and the witnesses on her 2nd marriage certificate were J W Cole (presumably her son) and G S Smith ?
I'm not sure if Leonard's family were catholic. I have christenings for some of his siblings. His parents were buried in Kirkdale Cemetery in the C section, understanding this as Consecrated section.
He, Gertrude and two of their sons are in the Roman Cathloic Section and I think nearly all of their children were baptised in RC Churches.
I'll look into the Sneinton baptism and the Elizabeth Stead lead but as you say we don't know about Nottingham
Thanks again I appreciate it :)
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jonw65 - I can't seem to find the Sneinton baptism - where did you find it?
Also typo error on second marriage witness - it should have been G Smith - only G Smith I can relate to it is Gertrude's daughter Gertrude May Smith
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I wonder who her son Leonard Cole was named after
Leonard John Mansell Cole (mmn Stead) b 19/1/1908
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Leonard John Mansell Cole's name, as far as I have found, comes from the Cole line -
Leonard Rice Cole - Father - Lawford Cole
Lawford Cole - Father - Mansell Lawford Cole
I've been curious where the 'Rice' comes from as haven't found any links as yet
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I can't seem to find the Sneinton baptism - where did you find it?
Hi
FreeReg has it
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
It also seems to be in the Nottinghamshire Baptisms Index 1538-1917 (don't have access at the moment)