RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: andycadman on Saturday 06 June 20 09:48 BST (UK)
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I ordered an 19th century Marriage certificate from the GRO a while ago as part of some research that I am doing. I know that they currently have significantly reduced staffing due to the current pandemic. I am sure that they have more urgent cases to deal with at the moment and I will most probably have to be very patient in waiting for it to arrive. Does anyone know if none urgent orders are arriving through the post at the moment and how long they are taking?
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Have you seen the message on the GRO website:
Due to Covid-19, certificate orders will not be completed within the published timescales
In line with public health guidance to help stop the spread of the coronavirus, the General Register Office is currently operating with reduced staffing to comply with social distancing restrictions.
We remain committed to processing orders as fast as we can, however please do not contact us for updates as we will be unable to confirm when your order will be completed.
If your order is not urgent, please help us to support those who need our services the most by coming back at a later date to apply.
For priority orders using Royal Mail Special Delivery or DHL Delivery, please check the relevant website for updates on delivery information.
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They are arriving but will take longer than they would do normally. I ordered a marriage certificate and it did arrive but took longer than normal.
I am assuming you meant a marriage certificate dating from 1837 or later. 18th century marriages are in parish records.
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Thank you for getting back Gadget & Girl guide:
I missed this when I applied a while back. I just guess that I will just have to be extremely patient. I just wondered if any none urgent certificates were getting through at the moment as “lock down” is being relaxed just a little.
(It's a post 1837 certificate).
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I ordered a marriage certificate on 28th April - it arrived a couple of days ago.
And just to reiterate - there weren't any certificates before 1st July 1837 ;D
I would assume priority orders are quicker - but there's an extra cost for them!
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Many thanks for letting me know KGarrad. That's just the information that I needed. I did not want to pester the GRO in the current crisis and now I know that my certificate is likely to arrive with a little patience.
(Sorry for the typo- should have originally read 19th Century certificate!- now updated)
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Judging by posts on another forum it seems they are taking about a month to 5 weeks for paper copies and a bit quicker for pdf ones.
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Most, but not all, local registration offices are still supplying certificates, and are generally much quicker than GRO at the moment ( although no PDF option).
The last paper certificate I ordered from GRO finally arrived recently after about 7 weeks.
So I've been ordering most of mine locally over the last couple of months and I don't think any have taken longer than a week - some just a couple of days.
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I ordered two death certificates (1916) from Hounslow Register Office at the end of May and had them in my hand yesterday.
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Received 2 yesterday, they took 2 weeks longer than the date given by GRO when i ordered them, thank you GRO.
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Many thanks to everyone who has replied. It all adds to our understanding of the situation in these strange times.
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Definitely useful information for me too !
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Just to "square the circle" the certificate that I ordered in early May arrived today. So patience is the key!
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I ordered two death certificates (1916) from Hounslow Register Office at the end of May and had them in my hand yesterday.
The advantage of waiting for the GRO is that you could get those as PDF's for £7 each. ;D
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I ordered two death certificates (1916) from Hounslow Register Office at the end of May and had them in my hand yesterday.
The advantage of waiting for the GRO is that you could get those as PDF's for £7 each. ;D
How much do local register offices usually charge?
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Usually £11.00 plus postage for all three types of certs, birth, marriage and death.
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Usually £11.00 plus postage for all three types of certs, birth, marriage and death.
I thought that after the GRO increased them to £11 the local register offices dropped the standard postage charge.
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I ordered a pdf on the 20th May & it arrived this morning, to give a clue to current timescale
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3 weeks past an expected delivery date here.
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Ordered three paper certificates on the 5th May and still waiting.
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Ordered three paper certificates on the 5th May and still waiting.
When do we complain ::) :-\?
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I ordered some certificates and, yes, they did take longer at the start of the lock-down, but more recently ordered ones, were dealt with quicker.
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Ordered three paper certificates on the 5th May and still waiting.
When do we complain ::) :-\?
I'm not in a hurry but I am worried that according to the GRO web site orders are only listed for 3 months. What happens if the order hasn't been dispatched in that time? If there has been no update by the 2.5 month mark I'll send an enquiry.
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This is the information in relation to a PDF from the GRO website.
Please ensure that you download your PDF copy of an entry to your device within 3 months from notification that your order is placed.
Below is part of the information I received telling me that my order was ready:-
Please ensure you download your PDF within 3 months of receiving this email. Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system along with any associated PDFs.
As long as you download your PDF when you get the email saying it is available, there shouldn't be any problem.
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Ordered three paper certificates on the 5th May and still waiting.
When do we complain ::) :-\?
Why would you complain when they tell you on their site that there will be delays and not to order unless it is urgent?
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This is the information in relation to a PDF from the GRO website.
Please ensure that you download your PDF copy of an entry to your device within 3 months from notification that your order is placed.
Below is part of the information I received telling me that my order was ready:-
Please ensure you download your PDF within 3 months of receiving this email. Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system along with any associated PDFs.
As long as you download your PDF when you get the email saying it is available, there shouldn't be any problem.
My worry is with the "Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system" part and whether that still applies if the order hasn't been completed within 3 months. Do you receive a refund or just lose the money? Maybe it wasn't considered possible that an order might take that long when the system was designed.
The advice to download PDFs presupposes that the order has been completed and the PDFs have been made available. (Note that I mentioned applying for paper certificates. I tried PDFs but sometimes found them difficult to read because they use black and white rather than grey scale.)
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My worry is with the "Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system" part and whether that still applies if the order hasn't been completed within 3 months. Do you receive a refund or just lose the money? Maybe it wasn't considered possible that an order might take that long when the system was designed.
The advice to download PDFs presupposes that the order has been completed and the PDFs have been made available. (Note that I mentioned applying for paper certificates. I tried PDFs but sometimes found them difficult to read because they use black and white rather than grey scale.)
Well you certainly have been waiting a long time if you ordered them on 5 May.
Have you looked on the system and does it still say they are outstanding?
If the answer to that is yes then you just have to wait although i admit it seems unfair that a certificate I ordered on 1 June i received a week ago.
No they will not just delete them from the system and keep the money. At the very least if they don't fulfill the order they have to give you a reason so you will hear something
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Ordered three paper certificates on the 5th May and still waiting.
When do we complain ::) :-\?
Why would you complain when they tell you on their site that there will be delays and not to order unless it is urgent?
I can't see any such warning
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp
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Coronavirus
Due to Covid-19, certificate orders will not be completed within the published timescales
In line with public health guidance to help stop the spread of the coronavirus, the General Register Office is currently operating with reduced staffing to comply with social distancing restrictions.
We remain committed to processing orders as fast as we can, however please do not contact us for updates as we will be unable to confirm when your order will be completed.
If your order is not urgent, please help us to support those who need our services the most by coming back at a later date to apply.
For priority orders using Royal Mail Special Delivery or DHL Delivery, please check the relevant website for updates on delivery information.
-
Coronavirus
Due to Covid-19, certificate orders will not be completed within the published timescales
In line with public health guidance to help stop the spread of the coronavirus, the General Register Office is currently operating with reduced staffing to comply with social distancing restrictions.
We remain committed to processing orders as fast as we can, however please do not contact us for updates as we will be unable to confirm when your order will be completed.
If your order is not urgent, please help us to support those who need our services the most by coming back at a later date to apply.
For priority orders using Royal Mail Special Delivery or DHL Delivery, please check the relevant website for updates on delivery information.
Ah I see it only shows if you are not logged in.
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My worry is with the "Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system" part and whether that still applies if the order hasn't been completed within 3 months. Do you receive a refund or just lose the money? Maybe it wasn't considered possible that an order might take that long when the system was designed.
The advice to download PDFs presupposes that the order has been completed and the PDFs have been made available. (Note that I mentioned applying for paper certificates. I tried PDFs but sometimes found them difficult to read because they use black and white rather than grey scale.)
Well you certainly have been waiting a long time if you ordered them on 5 May.
Have you looked on the system and does it still say they are outstanding?
If the answer to that is yes then you just have to wait although i admit it seems unfair that a certificate I ordered on 1 June i received a week ago.
No they will not just delete them from the system and keep the money. At the very least if they don't fulfill the order they have to give you a reason so you will hear something
There doesn't seem to be much logic to it. My order was half completed over two weeks ago. I am not sure whether the other part has been somehow 'lost in the system', and how long I should wait to ask about it.
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My worry is with the "Any orders older than 3 months will be deleted from the online ordering system" part and whether that still applies if the order hasn't been completed within 3 months. Do you receive a refund or just lose the money? Maybe it wasn't considered possible that an order might take that long when the system was designed.
The advice to download PDFs presupposes that the order has been completed and the PDFs have been made available. (Note that I mentioned applying for paper certificates. I tried PDFs but sometimes found them difficult to read because they use black and white rather than grey scale.)
Well you certainly have been waiting a long time if you ordered them on 5 May.
Have you looked on the system and does it still say they are outstanding?
If the answer to that is yes then you just have to wait although i admit it seems unfair that a certificate I ordered on 1 June i received a week ago.
No they will not just delete them from the system and keep the money. At the very least if they don't fulfill the order they have to give you a reason so you will hear something
Yes, all three show as In Progress. I'll give it until mid-July before chasing.
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It might be worth checking: a marriage certificate I ordered on 1st May and received a couple of weeks ago still says in progress ( a pdf ordered 5/6/2020 clearly says despatched ).
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It might be worth checking: a marriage certificate I ordered on 1st May and received a couple of weeks ago still says in progress ( a pdf ordered 5/6/2020 clearly says despatched ).
Have you checked your junk folder for the email about the pdf?
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Hi Groom,
I meant that, although I had received the paper certificate, it still says in progress, so maybe the other person’s cert has been sent and has gone astray. (I also received the pdf but this showed it had been completed. )
Regards
Jo
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I ordered a marriage cert on 10th may and despatch date was 15 th may still saying in progress and I was n't worried about waiting. I'm finding though that certs ordered recently are being despatched From what I've heard on different sites, at some point they appear to be keeping with up with new orders but dealing with back log . Some people have waited 2 months for a cert. Someone I know ordered in last fortnight got a pdf in a week and was waiting for certs. I'm waiting to see what happened to her certs.
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I guess that the pdf certificates are much easier to send as they have already been scanned, so all someone has to do it call it up on the computer and press a button. Paper certificates have to be found, copied and posted, so more complicated.
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Just a thought - is there a shortage of the certificate paper at the moment.
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Its ridiculous! Order one in April, still hasn't arrived!
Claimed to the G.R.O. on two occasions.
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If you don't have the patience to wait, why on earth did you order a certificate during a pandemic?
Knowing that GRO, along with most employers, had fewer staff working?
IMHO what's ridiculous is ordering during a very difficult time!
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If you don't have the patience to wait, why on earth did you order a certificate during a pandemic?
Knowing that GRO, along with most employers, had fewer staff working?
IMHO what's ridiculous is ordering during a very difficult time!
It wasn't a matter of patience, it was knowing that i found the reference and it was ordered, so i had peace of mind.
Ok, so there is a pandemic, things go slow, but being ordered in April is just a joke.
Most matters are via computer network, so an entry using given numbers is not that complicated, press Enter, Print the PDF and it gets posted.
Easy as pie!
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You have to bear in mind that the GRO probably gets hundreds of orders if not thousands every week or every month. If they have less staff than normal to process the orders, then it is going to take longer.
I had a look at some of my previous orders and they took between four to six weeks to arrive either by pdf or post.
I have some currently awaiting arrival. Whilst waiting for those I have just simply moved on to another area of research. :)
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Most matters are via computer network, so an entry using given numbers is not that complicated, press Enter, Print the PDF and it gets posted.
Easy as pie!
If it was already in digital format you might have a point, but my understanding is that they are only scanned as and when needed. I don't know if the scans are then saved for any subsequent orders.
Government offices like the GRO aren't supposed to make a profit on the services they provide. The fact that Scotland charges £1.50 for copies from records that are known to have been scanned and England charges £7.00 for pdfs does rather suggest that the countries are using different processes.
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Shortly after the PDF copies were introduced Guy (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10473) made a Freedom Of Information request, asking for details of the process. Despite it being a digital copy it still involved quite a few manual steps. The process may have changed since but it's probably still not as simple as a couple of button clicks.
WhatDoTheyKnow
A Freedom of Information request to General Register Office:
I am requesting details of the process for supplying uncertified PDFs of GRO registers of Births & Deaths
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/i_am_requesting_details_of_the_p
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I really can't understand why people are surprised that they are having to wait for non essential things like certificates, during a time unlike anything we've gone through before. I expect the GRO may had had to furlough a lot of staff, plus having to cope with staff who may have had to self isolate and arrange the work space to cope with social distancing. It clearly states on their page (and has done from the beginning) that there will be delays AND they ask people not to order unless urgent. So if people choose order anyway, or don't bother to read that warning, they can't then complain when they don't get a certificate in the normal time.
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I really can't understand why people are surprised that they are having to wait for non essential things like certificates, during a time unlike anything we've gone through before. I expect the GRO may had had to furlough a lot of staff, plus having to cope with staff who may have had to self isolate and arrange the work space to cope with social distancing. It clearly states on their page (and has done from the beginning) that there will be delays AND they ask people not to order unless urgent. So if people choose order anyway, or don't bother to read that warning, they can't then complain when they don't get a certificate in the normal time.
The problem is some people will not have seen the warning if they don't log out on their browser.
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Don't forget that people are dying and babies are being born. These people would be the priority.
I am sure like me you can wait till things settle down.
Carol
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For me it isn't so much the delay itself as different people experiencing different delays. I expected delays to be similar.
The Freedom of Information request has an interesting passage - "all records must be certified by the district where the event occurred as a true copy of the register entry, before the General Register Office is able to provide a copy of that event either by certificate or PDF". If the GRO has to contact a district office before sending out a certificate maybe the irregular delays are due to different district offices taking different amounts of time.
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Don't forget that people are dying and babies are being born. These people would be the priority.
I am sure like me you can wait till things settle down.
Carol
At the moment they are not even accepting birth registrations, and there are very few marriages taking place. The indexes will make interesting reading for the second quarter of 2020 - no births registered, just a few marriages but over 50.000 deaths.
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May make people harder to find in the future. I agree it should make for interesting searches.
Carol
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The Freedom of Information request has an interesting passage - "all records must be certified by the district where the event occurred as a true copy of the register entry, before the General Register Office is able to provide a copy of that event either by certificate or PDF". If the GRO has to contact a district office before sending out a certificate maybe the irregular delays are due to different district offices taking different amounts of time.
No, you've misunderstood the process. It comes up here fairly regularly, and if you do a search for "GRO quarterly returns" (without the quotes) you should find some relevant discussions.
Births, marriages and deaths are registered at a local register office, and once a quarter a copy of these records is sent off to the GRO with a signed certificate to the effect that they are a true copy of the entries in the register held in the office.
Marriages can also take place and be registered at a place of worship, with the minister acting as registrar; in this case the minister writes out the quarterly return and certifies that it is a true copy of the register that he/she holds. The minister sends the quarterly return to the local register office, and they collate the returns for the whole district and send them off to the GRO.
The certification mentioned in the Freedom of Information request has always been part of the process - or to put it another way, if the GRO has a BMD record, it was already certified when the GRO received it.
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At the moment they are not even accepting birth registrations, and there are very few marriages taking place.
Births are now being registered again, started up again two or three weeks ago I think.
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If it was already in digital format you might have a point, but my understanding is that they are only scanned as and when needed. I don't know if the scans are then saved for any subsequent orders.
My OH got the Family History bug badly (if that's the right word!) just after lockdown started. I had bought him a DNA test for Christmas 2018 and he did it, but didn't bother too much about with his matches (Ancestry). He was a bit unsure about the death of his g-grandmother - two ladies with same name (married name) died within a year of each other at similar age in adjacent districts. He found a tree for a third cousin which had the death date for the lady which was his second choice based on where the family had been living on previous censuses. He ordered PDFs of both death certs. They both came well within a week, quicker than I've had any in normal times. Could that be because his third cousin had already ordered them some time ago - having had the same dilemma with the two ladies - and they had already been scanned.?
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They both came well within a week, quicker than I've had any in normal times. Could that be because his third cousin had already ordered them some time ago - having had the same dilemma with the two ladies - and they had already been scanned.?
Possibly. :)
I have a theory (totally unproven) that the reason some certificates arrive much quicker than others is either
1. The certificate has been requested before and so it is easier / quicker for them to access and produce a new certificate, or
2. When a request comes in the system identifies which film/ledger they are on. If there are files with lots of requests for certificates by just processing that one file they produce lots of certificates whereas films that only have one certificate request are more time consuming to produce and do not get any sort of "priority"