RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Jnalson209 on Wednesday 03 June 20 19:54 BST (UK)
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Could someone be married by bans in the Presbyterian faith but have no actual record of the marriage?
I know a family member got married between 1877 and 1881 but there is no record on any sites, including PRONI and I've checked Scotland and English records.
I'm starting to think this person could have married his aunt (through marriage - widow of his blood uncle).
Her first husband died in 1877 and she died 1881. So the second marriage had to occur between these periods.
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It's not unusual for a marriage not to be registered.
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Just puzzled, as her first marriage was registered and her second husband's next two marriages were also registered.
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I've see entire pages of parish registers (RC) with only one or two of the marriages registered.
My grandfather is the only one of his family without a birth cert and he also has no marriage cert.
It happens.
Hopefully you can find a church record of the marriage.
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Thanks
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Best to stick to one thread on a subject to avoid duplication of searching and posts.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832009.msg6965714#msg6965714
The 'missing' marriage isn't really a Presbyterian query but a general one. However, in this case, after checking Scottish, English & Welsh records (the last 2 unlikely but easily checked), if nothing turns up I don't think there was a marriage between William J. McComb and Ellen.
Does the report of her suicide shed any light on whether she was married or cohabiting at the time of her death (either might, according to wording of late husband's Will, mean that she would not be entitled to his property, etc.).
What about any mention of legal proceedings in newspapers prior to her death?
I'm starting to think this person could have married his aunt (through marriage - widow of his blood uncle).
Why do you think he married his uncle's widow? From the other thread-
William McDowell married 1863 Eliza Bean (age 18). William McDowell died December 1878. Eliza died (as wife? of W.J. McComb) in 1881.
Thus any 2nd marriage for Eliza would have been Dec.1878-1881. William John McComb was about 22 in 1881. If they got married before around 1880 then he would have been under age which might also explain why they never actually got married.
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The Belfast Newsletter says
"It appeared that deceased had been a second time married"
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The Belfast Newsletter says
"It appeared that deceased had been a second time married"
Hmm... could go either way...
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I can't look on iPad but would there be a memorial thingy for the farm on FamilySearch land registry records?
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PRONI has Valuation Revision Books online-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books
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Just remembered that Eliza's 'first' husband William McDowell died without a Will (this is what happens when two threads are running at the same time)-
Letters of Administration of the personal estate of William M'Dowell late of Lisdrumwhir County Armagh Farmer deceased who died 2 December 1878 at same place were granted at Armagh to Eliza M'Dowell of Lisdrumwhir (Glenanne) aforesaid the Widow of said deceased.
So, his relative involved in court case couldn't say Eliza forfeited property by a subsequent marriage,
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Wonder if this is a relative of William McDowell's? (very interesting Will but doesn't shed any light on Eliza)-
Probate of the Will of Archibald McDowell late of Lisdrumchor County Armagh Farmer who died 2 February 1911 granted at Armagh to Jane Hunter Spinster. Effects £411 5s. 0d.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05406/4510173.pdf
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Apologies for the two threads.
The will record for a Robert McDowell in 1875 he mentions leaving his farm to his son William - it also mentions a son John and daughter Eliza McComb (who I believe married a David McComb in 1855).
John McDowell brought the legal case against Eliza McComb (William's wife) - I believe because she remarried and according to Robert's will it should be past to John, after the death of William.
Both William and Roberts lands were granted to John McDowell May 1881 (after Eliza McComb committed suicide).
I didn't know whether William John was the son of David and Eliza McComb (nee McDowell) and hence WJ married his aunt???
Sounds strange, but knowing the area they lived in and will and lack of marriage record thought this might be possible?
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My theory is that because she knew she would lose the property if she remarried (terms of her first husband's will), she may have just lived with W.J. McComb, and her first husband's brother (who was in line to get the farm if she remarried), protested and tried to claim the farm.
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Would she still have taken his name (Mc Comb) if they hadn't married? As the court and death certificate state Mc Comb wife of WJ McComb.
I know records were kept until 1864, is there anyway to find birth records before that?
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She could have been known as W.J.'s wife but never actually married him. I suspect, as Eileen does, that a marriage did not take place.
Registration of births started 1864 so before that date you need to search for church records. Not all records pre-1864 survive and of those that do not all are online. Another problem may be that name of mother is not recorded in baptismal register- this varies according to minister and period.
Added- Robert McDowell's Will does NOT specify any stipulation as to what would happen if son William died. I think that since Eliza was William's widow she would have inherited William's share.
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Another assumption but possible John McDowell was annoyed that William's widow was with WJ and hence wanted to claim his father's estate.
I'm gathering that Robert's will is the same connection, especially since he died in 1875 and William in 1877 and then they were both granted a month after Eliza's death in 1881.
Thank you everyone for your help on this matter, it has been really frustrating me (for years!) and the lack of sleep over the past few weeks trying to find this record, that I know probably doesn't exist.
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Doesn't help that in Robert McDowell's will it names an Eliza McComb.
Why did they all have the same names :(
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Doesn't help that in Robert McDowell's will it names an Eliza McComb.
Why did they all have the same names :(
Robert McDowell's Will names his 'daughter Eliza McComb' which makes it fairly clear who he meant.
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I know, just wondering whether that is the Eliza McDowell that married a David Mc Comb in 1855 and could possible be WJ's mother.