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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: KiwiFrances on Monday 01 June 20 03:39 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to trace the twin brother of Percy Cooper. Both born in Alton Hampshire U.K. in 1883, to parents James Humphrey Cooper 1854-1906 and Harriet Tiley 1859-1911. Brothers William, Arthur and Charles (killed WW1 1917).
Family were grocers. I found both, registered in census 1891,1901 and they both came to Wellington N.Z. on Shaw Savill ship Ionic March,1906,occupation joiners. Percy married Minnie Lyttle and they returned to UK in 1910, but don't know what happened to Frank. I can find no trace in N.Z.
I can find no further information and wondered if anyone can help please
Frances
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For reference:
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QN2B-JT2
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9X2-V3L
Percy, 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDM-KYF
Frank, with his mother and siblings 1911:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDM-DMS
COOPER, JAMES WALTER mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 362
COOPER, FRANK mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in ALTON Volume 02C Page 167
COOPER, PERCY mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in ALTON Volume 02C Page 167
COOPER, WILLIAM WATSON mmn TILEY died 1884
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 332
COOPER, WILLIAM NINER mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 312
COOPER, HENRY mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 338
COOPER, ARTHUR mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 348
COOPER, GEORGE ERNEST mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 361
COOPER, CHARLIE TILEY mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 402
Jamjar
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Possible marriages for a Frank:
Mar 1921 Kingston 2a 871
COOPER Frank
BUTLER May L
Dec 1921 Kingston 2a 1016
COOPER Frank
ILES Bertha M
A 1939 register check may assist further.
Jamjar
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Harriet Tiley 1859-1911
Could you provide the reference for her death, please?
Jamjar
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1911- Frank 27 is with is widowed mother Harriett 52 and brothers James W 29 and Arthur 22, still in the Grocery trade. 60 Brighton Road, Surbiton, Surrey
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Probate for James Humphrey Cooper shows he died 18 January 1906. Probate to Harriet widow, James Walter Cooper Grocer, Frank Cooper Cabinet Maker, Percy Cooper Carpenter.
Address given 86 Brighton Road Surbiton
Ref Index of Wills and Admons 1858-1955
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1914 electoral register, Surrey mid or Epsom
Parish of Thames Ditton (Claygate Ward)
Frank Cooper, place of abode 60 Brighton road, Surbiton, Shop, 9 Station buildings
1918, Chertsey
Parish of Thames Ditton (Claygate Ward)
Frank Cooper, Shop - 9 Station buildings (Abode - 60 Brighton Road, Surbiton)
1922, Chertsey
Parish of Thames Ditton (Claygate Ward)
Frank Cooper, Shop - 23 The Parade (Abode - 60 Brighton Road, Surbiton)
1924 The Shop at 23 The Parade has Richard Edward Skinner, abode 45 Victoria Road, Surbiton
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I'm trying to trace the twin brother of Percy Cooper. Both born in Alton Hampshire U.K. in 1883
Exact date of birth?
Mention this death
March 1936 Epping 4a 483
Cooper, Frank
age 52
Because he was buried at Surbiton, 24 Feb 1936. Section 4 Grave 918
http://web.kingston.gov.uk/images/GraveRecords/SurbitonCemetery/BurialRegister6_1933-1936/pge00077.jpg
Death occurred 19 Feb at Carrisbrook House, Epping.
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Investigating that place :(
1937 Kelly´s Directory Essex
Epping
Carrisbrook Home for Aged Ladies (Mrs. H. Perry, matron) Station rd, TN 333
Western Gazette, 9 September 1938
l remain, sincerely (Miss) MARY AUGUSTA WARREN Carrisbrook House, Epping.
Free index to 1939 Register has Mary Warren, born 1859, at Carisbrook Nursing Home, Epping U.D., Essex. Are there a few males there, other than staff?
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Harriet Tiley 1859-1911
Could you provide the reference for her death, please?
No sign of a death in 1911?
There is a Harriett Cooper at "Waverley", Vale Road, Claygate, parish of Thames Ditton, in the immediate post war years (electoral registers)
Could she have lived a lot longer? :-\
Death
March 1940 Surrey South Western 2a 1186
Cooper, Harriett
age 81
Probate for her same year, widow of 69 Speer Road, Thames Ditton, died Ripley, Surrey. Granted to Arthur Cooper, grocer, and a solicitor
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=cooper&yearOfDeath=1940&page=7#calendar
1939 Register free index
69 Speer Road, Esher U.D., Surrey, England
This household is vacant. Nobody lived in this house in 1939 :(
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Arthur Cooper was a son of Harriet, and the family were grocers/off license holders, so maybe family date of death is wrong? Frances
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Hi
It looks as though it might be her. Hopefully! What with Arthur the grocer being an executor.
It could be worth ordering that will while they are just £1.50. Will be sent by e-mail. There might be delays now of course, but then there were delays anyway due to the huge demand. They were due to review pricing in July, possibly? :-\
If it is your Harriett it would be interesting anyway, whether it helps with Frank or not. But it's a pity this lady of Speer Road, yours or not, hasn't turned up on the 1939 Register, Can anyone find her?
Were any of the Coopers butchers?
John
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Would Basingstoke be too far away for Harriet pre-war. :-\
Does Gertrude Cooper that married Archibald Willis fit in anywhere
Marriage Dec qtr 1922
Cooper Gertrude H
Willis Archibald V
Basingstoke 2c 537
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No Archibald or Gertrude Cooper in family and date/area wrong. No butchers in family that we can see.
Have a copy of James Humphrey Cooper (husband) death Jan 18, burial in Surrey Jan 23 1906, of 86 Brighton Rd ,Surbiton, Surrey.
We also have a copy of his probate London 10 Feb 1906 to Hariett Cooper, widow, James Walter Cooper (son) grocer, Frank Cooper Cabinet maker, and Percy Cooper Carpenter, Effects 2333 pounds 18 shillings and 11 pence.
We know that she kept on with grocer shop, because of 1911 Census with James, Frank and Arthur, her sons.
Percy and his wife returned to NZ, but what became of Percy's twin Frank, we would like to know. We have postcards from him to Percy and Minnie and nephew Len 1912-1918 posted Esher mostly, with address Claygate. It also appears Percy wrote to him and mother and brother Arthur, from info on postcards.
Frances
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Mention this death
March 1936 Epping 4a 483
Cooper, Frank
age 52
Because he was buried at Surbiton, 24 Feb 1936. Section 4 Grave 918
A bit more
Also in Section 4 Grave 918
Thelma Cooper, Infant, died 12 April 1922, age 8 hours, buried 18 April 1922
http://web.kingston.gov.uk/images/GraveRecords/SurbitonCemetery/BurialRegister2_1920-1923/pge00024.jpg
She died at 60 Maple Road, Surbiton.
Birth reg
June 1922 Kingston 2a 804
Cooper, Thelma
mother Wheatley
Presumably the parents marriage is
June qtr 1921, Kingston
James W. Cooper + Evelyn M. Wheatley
Now then, is James W Cooper who married in 1921 connected to "our" Frank?
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Frank, with his mother and siblings 1911:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDM-DMS
COOPER, JAMES WALTER mmn TILEY
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 362
If poor Thelma was the daughter of his brother James Walter, still unmarried in 1911....
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Looking for James Coopers who were grocers in free index to 1939 finds one living Red Hatch, Portsmouth Avenue, Esher U.D.
James W Cooper, born 1881
with
Evelyn M Cooper, born 1900
Charles S Cooper, born 1923
I'm going to question that index and suggest this birth reg
March 1923 Kingston 2a 799
Cooper, Charles T.
mother Wheatley
And further suggest that the Frank who died in Epping and is buried in the grave in Surbiton with the infant Thelma Cooper could be the man we are looking for.
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I think we might be on the right track.
Frank is beginning to sound right, as other facts seem to match.
Frank did have brother James Walter b 1881 and seems to have been married to Evelyn M Wheatley, nothing known about any family, so that is exciting, if it proves to be the case.
Still wanting to know more about Frank please
Frances
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Have just found marriage for James Walter and Evelyn Wheatley 1921 Surrey, so that's an added part of the history!
Frances
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Found James W and Evelyn M Cooper on 1939 census England and Wales aged 81 and 80 respectively.
Also found christening record for Esther Tiley (mother of Harriet Cooper(Tiley) grandmother to James, Percy and Frank) for 1859, her parents being William and Esther Tiley, married in Woodchester, Gloucester 18 Feb 1851. Interestingly, William's occupation was a butcher.
More mystery!
Frances
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Hi
Excellent finds! So you can sort out another line now.
If Frank did marry (it is if at the moment), I think this one mentioned by Jamjar could be worth investigating
Mar 1921 Kingston 2a 871
COOPER Frank
BUTLER May L
Can May be found in 1939?
John
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Tried checking out that hint re Frank and May L Butler, found wedding certificate but wrong parents on Cooper side!! Back to the drawing board.
Have found another name Florence Annie but not sure if that's a connection? We have found a photo of a person who looks like Percy (given they were twins) and also some family likeness, with writing on back, saying Annie and I.
Frances
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Have located probate for Frank. Has him passing away at Carisbrooke Home, Station Rd Epping 19 Feb 1936, granted to Arthur Cooper grocer (brother) and solictor Frank Elworthy Baldock.
Trying to find this Home has brought up Epping Poor Law Institution1930 and becoming St Margaret's Hospital by 1938. Can anyone help?
Frances