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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: christev on Sunday 31 May 20 16:14 BST (UK)

Title: adopted ancestor
Post by: christev on Sunday 31 May 20 16:14 BST (UK)
I have the names of my ancestors adoptive parents and also the name of his biological father as appears on his marriage certificate.Unfortunately the name of his father being  John Jackson with no date of birth or without mothers name I am just going down blind alleys all the time.
  Is there any way of finding out who my ancestors biological parents are??  (I know by the time he reached 9 years of age he had been adopted as he was with his adoptive parents on the 1891 census but he had not been born at the time of the 1881 census)
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: TerriG on Sunday 31 May 20 17:03 BST (UK)
Hi

Did he go by his birth name, or did he take on his adoptive parents' names?
If you could tell us where he was born, and which censuses you have found him on, plus the name he went by so we can help.

Terri
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: dowdstree on Sunday 31 May 20 17:12 BST (UK)
As TerriG says his name would maybe help us to help you in your quest.

One thing to remember is that adoption as we know it did not come into being until 1926 in England and later in other parts of the Uk. Prior to this they were private arrangements often with family members or friends.

Dorrie

Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: christev on Sunday 31 May 20 17:24 BST (UK)
Hi

Did he go by his birth name, or did he take on his adoptive parents' names?
If you could tell us where he was born, and which censuses you have found him on, plus the name he went by so we can help.

Terri
He was known by his birth name Frederick Jackson b.1882 with adoptive parents Luke and Hannah Abbey and their daughter Sarah Ann at St georges court york in the 1891 census.He married Bridgett Davitt in 1911 and the wedding certificate states fathers name John.
 I have suddenly realised I have asked this question before although it was quite some time ago (maybe there is more info available now) it is still driving me mad trying to find out.
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 31 May 20 17:38 BST (UK)
Have you discounted this one
JACKSON, FREDERICK       mmn BELL 
1881  Dec Quarter in YORK  Volume 09D  Page 28
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: TerriG on Sunday 31 May 20 17:44 BST (UK)
This is your previous post about Frederick:-

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=575123.0
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: christev on Sunday 31 May 20 17:47 BST (UK)
Have you discounted this one
JACKSON, FREDERICK       mmn BELL 
1881  Dec Quarter in YORK  Volume 09D  Page 28
I have looked at this one on a number of occasions but not been able to ascertain if this is the right line to go down (another frustration).would love to just find something that would  give me certainty.
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 31 May 20 17:51 BST (UK)
It does not help with him naming his father as John either as that is more than likely made up.

I see I was trying to help when you posted before  ;D   ;D
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 18:23 BST (UK)
Have you discounted this one
JACKSON, FREDERICK       mmn BELL 
1881  Dec Quarter in YORK  Volume 09D  Page 28
I have looked at this one on a number of occasions but not been able to ascertain if this is the right line to go down (another frustration).would love to just find something that would  give me certainty.

Frederick
Born 3 November 1881
34 Dale Street (?) St. Mary Junior
Father William George Jackson, occupation Joiner
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 18:43 BST (UK)
I have looked at this one on a number of occasions but not been able to ascertain if this is the right line to go down

If you have bought the certificate please let us know the name of the mother ;D
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: TerriG on Sunday 31 May 20 19:03 BST (UK)
Don't know if this helps, but there is a website called "Too Many Cooks" which can be found here: http://jimpolson.ca/Cook-o/p3.htm
It has details about a Myra Bell who married a John Jackson in 1871 in Hunslet, West Riding.  Presumably John dies sometime after the 1891 Census (possibly 1896), so I think she then goes on to marry John Wesley Spence in Hunslet in 1900.
There is no sign of any children in the 1881 and 1891 censuses.
In 1911, she is a widow again, and states that she has no children.
This may help for elimination purposes.
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Frederick
Born 3 November 1881
34 Dale Street (?) St. Mary Junior
Father William George Jackson, occupation Joiner

Now there is a baptism in York, which must be this chap??
22 Nov 1881 / Born Nov 3
Frederick
parents Thomas + Eliza Jackson
abode 34 Dale St
father a Groom

Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L965-8ZFW?i=50

So what is going on?  Some fibbing by the looks of it. A bit of a difference with the half of the birth cert we have (father)
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 20:45 BST (UK)
A bit of a difference with the half of the birth cert we have (father)

I'm going to be very kind :)
and give a link to the image of the vaccination register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDP-H3NB-T?cat=788788

Free index to 1939 Register
Frederick Jackson, born 1882, living at 126 Water Lane, Flaxton R.D.
Testing!
Yes born in November, but may not say 3rd

Other Jacksons at 126 Water Lane, plus Catherine Jackson (Maxwell), born 1892
Did Frederick marry again? If so, have you got the certificate?
Dec 1951 Bulmer 1b 970
Jackson, Frederick - spouse Maxwell
Maxwell, Catherine - spouse Jackson

I see Frederick's daughter may have died Bulmer in 1946?  Eileen Veronica Jackson, 20.
Son Thomas died in WW2
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2414590/jackson,-thomas/
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:06 BST (UK)
Well if the mother really was Eliza, then in York in 1881 there is -
Eliza Jackson, 29, born Naburn, and her daughter Edith Jackson, 3, born Normanby
Living with Eliza's parents George and Jane Bell
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27B-ML6Q

Birth of Edith? Right district
JACKSON, EDITH       
Mother's Maiden Surname: BELL 
GRO Reference: 1877  D Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH  Volume 09D  Page 627

In 1891 Edith and an older sister Mary, also born Normanby, still with grandmother Jane Bell.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7PTQ-9T2

I believe that Eliza Jackson married Joseph Deighton in York in 1892

This may all be completely irrelevant of course. We shall find out soon!
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:14 BST (UK)
I believe that Eliza Jackson married Joseph Deighton in York in 1892

Here they are in York in 1901
Step son Alfred S Jackson, 15, born York
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS9G-HQK

1911 free index, York
Edith Jackson and Alfred Jackson with Joseph and Eliza Deighton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7RR-3YY
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:18 BST (UK)
Is this the correct death of Frederick?
March 1964 Bulmer 1b 626
Jackson, Frederick
age 82

Or is it not?
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:25 BST (UK)
Here they are in York in 1901
Step son Alfred S Jackson, 15, born York

Is that
JACKSON, ALFRED  SHAW     
Mother's Maiden Surname:   
GRO Reference: 1885  D Quarter in YORK  Volume 09D  Page 7
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:28 BST (UK)
It is!
Vaccination Register, 1885
Born 19th October, Union Workhouse
Alfred Shaw
Male
Name of father/mother if illegitimate - Eliza Jackson
Widow of William George Jackson, a Joiner

Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDP-FSQQ-Y?i=53&cat=788788

So did Eliza give up her son Frederick born 3.11.81 to be adopted?
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:30 BST (UK)
So did Eliza give up her son Frederick born 3.11.81 to be adopted?

Thoughts from christev needed please.
And please help clarify if any remarriage plus the death of Frederick
John
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 21:59 BST (UK)
There is a potential marriage
Dec 1871 Guisborough 9d 1019
Bell, Eliza
Jackson, William

Now, on Yorkshire Marriages on a certain site it is
William George Jackson + Eliza Bell, married at Ormesby.

Has anyone got more details?
Was WG Jackson really the father of Frederick as per 1881 birth certificate? Why say he was Thomas, a groom, on the baptism just a couple of weeks later?
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 31 May 20 22:18 BST (UK)
I suspect William George is listed on the birth cert as he was married to Eliza, so was in law the boy's father, but actually wasn't, and the baptism is a bit nearer the truth
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 31 May 20 22:22 BST (UK)
Mabel, I think you could be right about that. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.

We do know that Alfred was illegitimate
And interesting, in 1891, in St Maurice, there is an Alfred Jackson, 6, born York, Nurse Child
Piece 3891 folio 53 page 15
He is with the Waite family, all on previous page (folio 52 page 14)

John
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: christev on Tuesday 02 June 20 19:26 BST (UK)
wow thank you everyone.While this still leaves a lot of questions it certainly gives me a lot of new leads to work on once I unscramble my brain
       I am really grateful for all your help.
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: BerkshireSteel on Wednesday 02 September 20 18:47 BST (UK)
Hi everybody

I have been researching this tree for my good college buddy Paul.  We went down all the dead ends mentioned above but only really sorted things using DNA analysis.

These are our findings.  Frederick Jackson was born on the 3rd November 1881 at 24 Dale Street, York.  His biological mother was Eliza Jackson nee Bell as discussed.  This has been proven through various DNA connections of Eliza Bell and Paul.  The father on the Fredericks birth certificate is William George Jackson who has also been mentioned above.  However we are 99% sure he is not the biological father.  There are no DNA connections from him.

William George Jackson was not around at the 1881 (April) Census when Eliza was back living with her parents and youngest child in Naburn up in Teesside where William George and Eliza both originated.  The other two elder children had been farmed out to her relatives.  We think William George died in 1882.  Eliza Bell has Alfred Shaw Jackson in 1885 in the York Union Workhouse with father unknown.  She describes herself as a widow.  She married Joseph Deighton in 1892 and they had their own family to add to both their chilldren from their previous marriages.

Frederick Jackson was adopted before 1891 when he appears in the 1891 census as adopted as  described above.

We are quite sure that Frederick's biological father was an Irish immigrant from west County Mayo, around Belmullet.  We have narrowed him down to about 3 families originating in that region based on DNA.  I think only further DNA analysis will help us actually identify Frederick's father but there is no guarantee.

I hope you find this useful and interesting.




   
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: BerkshireSteel on Thursday 03 September 20 11:13 BST (UK)
I add that the two Family Search documents were fascinating and useful.  Thanks for those and for all the other good stuff detailed in this thread.

The baptism record provides a name (Thomas) and an occupation (groom).  It reads like he is Thomas Jackson but I doubt that.  I think it is however Eliza Jackson and Frederick Jackson.

The slightly later vaccination record brings back in William George Jackson as "father" which only muddies the water even more!!!  But we keep at it!!
Title: Re: adopted ancestor
Post by: SouthseaSteel on Saturday 03 February 24 17:01 GMT (UK)
is there anybody out there still interested in this thread?