RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Linda Houston on Saturday 30 May 20 04:58 BST (UK)
-
Trying to fill in the blanks on my family tree from Australia.... I was born in Strabane and emigrated to Australia in 1972. My mother was a McDaid from Strabane and her father (and all his siblings) were born in Derrora townland, Donegal. However, they appear to have come from Derry and moved back and forth over the centuries between Derrora and Derry- I have addresses from the 1901/11 census of Wellington St. and Creggan St. The furthest back I have managed to confirm is my great-great-grandfather who was Patrick McDaid (1835-1903) and he married Sarah McLaughlin (1847-1916) and they both came from Derry and I have seen an address in Creggan St. One of their sons was Bernard McDaid (1856-1912) who married Bridget McMonagle (1866-1905) and one of their sons who is my grandfather Joseph McDaid (1898-1960) married Mary Anne Dinsmore (1894-1961) and they lived in Strabane. Many of my cousins still do..... and I'm sure I have relatives I do not know in Derry. Anyway, any help to get further back would be appreciated. Also puzzled at the movement between Derry and Derrora (near Letterkenny)! :)
-
Welcome to RootsChat :)
........and her father (and all his siblings) were born in Derrora townland, Donegal.
Just linking up the townland of Derrora for all to see.
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/kilmacrenan/conwal/templedouglas/derrora/
It is approximately 12km west of Letterkenny, and called Derora on Google Maps.
https://tinyurl.com/y7tqbtsu
KG
-
Births/baptisms I've seen so far for children of Bernard McDaid and Bridget McMonagle, show Bernard's occupation as tailor, which is at odds with the occupation stated for the father of Joseph McDaid in the 1914 marriage to Mary Dinsmore:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1914/09848/5576221.pdf
Also, Joseph's age (full) in that marriage registration would suggest birth in the early 1890s (at the latest), whereas the Joseph born in 1898 to Bernard McDaid and Bridget McMonagle was only 16 in 1914... ???
-
There's a butcher called Bernard McDaid from Creggan Street Derry, who married Jane Doherty in Derry in 1881 and went on to have a number of children including a son Bernard Joseph in 1888 - is there any chance that son went by his second name rather than his first?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/11018/8028596.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02474/1918580.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__4_Urban__West_Ward/Creggan_Street/1536728/
Are you sure about the whole Derrora angle - I mean, is it also part of family lore or something like that?
Edited to add: I'll hang back at this point, for although your original post isn't stacking up for me, maybe I'm off beam with the above and maybe others can find something that fits your original post better. :)
-
Just to add, Bernard McDaid the butcher did indeed die in 1912, the informant was recorded as his brother-in-law William Doherty, the address of 29 Lecky Road reads across to the following 1911 census return:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05373/4498799.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/Lesky_Road/603434/
The Bernard McDaid who is consistently shown as tailor and/or farmer - ie. Derrora Bernard, married to Bridget McMonagle - died in 1926:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1926/04991/4361238.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Templedouglas/Derrora/1187518/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Templedouglas/Derrora/497570/
-
Hi Gaffy, I think you might be right......I've been on the wrong track..... I did notice that Joseph McDaid was very young according to his marriage certificate so this makes more sense. And my mother who is in her late 80s and lives in Aust near me has always said her father was from Derry. She did not know his family though. I have just found also the birth certificate of his first son that I thought was Joseph (Joe he was known as) but actually his name was Bernard Joseph!- same as his father?
I will try checking my mothers brothers and sisters.
thanks
-
Finally, something more conclusive below... namely, the grave record for Jane Doherty McDaid who died on 6 April 1915, she was buried on 8 April in Derry City Cemetery, the stated father's name matches that in the 1881 marriage I posted at reply #3, there's also mention of 29 Lecky Road, so that fits:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207723843/jane-mcdaid
The death registration below described her as the 49 year old widow of a butcher - but the all important bit is the name, relationship and residence of the informant: 'Joseph McDaid Son Present at death Strabane':
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05273/4463855.pdf
The Derry Journal death notice on 7 April 1915 described her as 'Jane, the beloved wife of the late Bernard McDaid, butcher'.
BTW, the same newspaper also mentioned Bernard McDaid who predeceased Jane in January 1912, first a death notice on 22 January saying 'January 21, at his residence, 29, Lecky Road, Derry, Bernard McDaid, butcher - R.I.P. His remains will be removed for interment in the City Cemetery to-morrow (Tuesday), the 23rd instant, at half-past two o'clock p.m.', then on 24 January a brief account of the funeral, in which the deceased was described as the 'son of the late Mr. Arte McDaid of the Bogside, a stalwart of the old time Nationalism in Derry, and he himself in his own day, did his part' - again, the father's name matches that in the 1881 marriage I posted at reply #3.
-
The following looks like a possible death registration for Arthur McDaid, he died on 9 October 1899, the informant recorded as the widow Bessie of 13 Creggan St:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05780/4634389.pdf
The Derry Journal of 11 October 1899 carried an obituary in which Arthur was described as 'old Derry stock... true Celtic Catholic... a true stalwart always taking his place when the cause of his religion or his country needed the presence and action of men... of a family that go back past living memory in the butchering trade in Derry... his brother Mr. Patrick McDaid is still amongst us well to do in the business... Deceased was uncle to Mr Michael McDaid, the capable Nationalist Registration agent'.
The 1901 census showed Bessie living in the same house in Creggan Street as Bernard and Jane (Doherty) McDaid and family (enumerated separately as house 19.1 and 19.2):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__4_Urban__West_Ward/Creggan_Street/1536727/
Bessie died in 1907:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05531/4550367.pdf
If I'm correct in identifying the following marriage, then 'Bessie' (Elizabeth) was not his first wife nor the mother of Bernard (note, Arthur's father was recorded as John McDaid, butcher):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11369/8174531.pdf
The following looks like a possible candidate for Arthur's brother Patrick mentioned in Arthur's Derry Journal obituary of 11 October 1899, also living in Creggan Street in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__4_Urban__West_Ward/Creggan_Street/1536726/
I can see baptisms for the children in the above census return to indicate that the mother (Patrick's wife) was Sarah McLoughlin - I suspect these may be the same folk you mentioned in your original post - but Patrick was not your great great grandfather, rather he was Arthur's brother.
-
BTW, I can see baptisms of children at St. Columb's Long Tower Derry for a couple called Arthur McDaid and Bridget Kelly, from 1843 to 1863, these include one for a Bernard in May 1860 (below - right page, 9th entry down), so just to note Bridget as a possibility for Arthur's first wife:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633058#page/108/mode/1up
-
Hiya Linda
have a trawl through these - you may get lucky - if you see a big green tree to the left , you can click on it and open up a family tree - it is a huge list so best look when you have a lot of time - GOOD LUCK
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&size=10&type_periode=between&sexe=&nom=mcdaid&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=Northern+Ireland%2C+United+Kingdom&country__0__=GBR®ion__0__=ULS&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=®ion__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=®ion__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=®ion__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=®ion__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=&to=&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
-
wow... Gaffy thanks so much. I knew about Arthur being Patrick's brother and had them the wrong way round!!! My mum remembers her father's sister Alice and that hole has not been filled. the baptism records are very difficult to read aren't they- are they transcribed anywhere?
Do you live in Ireland? Thanks so much for putting me on the right track- and Mum is remembering a bit more today too....
I'm sure there are relatives still there but didn't know about the Derry connection when I was home for a month in Nov 2019. Went to the Xmas market in the guildhall.... hopefully I may get home again one day.
thanks again
Linda
-
If you mean the generation comprising the children of Bernard McDaid and Jane Doherty, then yes, Alice was shown as the youngest child in the 1911 census return for house 29 Lecky Road I posted at reply #4, here is her birth registration:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01827/1714225.pdf
She married a Charles McGuigan in Derry in 1920:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09259/5351963.pdf
-
Some baptisms for other children of Arthur McDaid and Brigid Kelly (all in St. Columb's Derry):
- John on 29 October 1843 (left page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633057#page/19/mode/1up
- Joseph on 18 September 1845 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633057#page/27/mode/1up
- James on 8 November 1846 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633057#page/30/mode/1up
- Patrick on 10 March 1849 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633057#page/33/mode/1up
- Mary on 27 November 1855 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633058#page/52/mode/1up
- Arthur on 16 January 1858 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633058#page/79/mode/1up
- Bernard on 13 May 1860 as previously mentioned
In addition, I can see a transcript of a baptism for a son Arthur for Arthur 'McDade' and 'Biddy' Kelly in St. Columb's Derry on 11 November 1863, sponsors Daniel and Ellen Boyle - one must suspect that the Arthur baptised in 1858 died young.
-
thank you so much...... it is good to see the real info now.... and to see that the family was firmly entrenched in Londonderry. In fact my immediate family are probably the furthest arm! You have really helped me on this quest many many thanks. Linda
I'm hoping when the pandemic lifts that it won't cost a small mortgage to fly as I must make another trip home to explore Derry...... all my cousins live in Strabane so not too far away. I did go shopping in Derry when I was there in Nov 19 but did not know my connection at the time.
Anyway thanks again
-
You're welcome. As far as Jane Doherty's background is concerned, the father William's occupation of 'auctioneer' stated in Jane's 1881 record of marriage to Bernard McDaid is a stand-out item of information, for auctioneers weren't thick on the ground relative to many other occupations. The grave record for Jane I posted at reply #6 mentioned parents 'William & M. Doherty'.
There's a couple called William Doherty and Martha Duffy who got married in St. Columb's Derry on 19 August 1858 (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633058#page/162/mode/1up
They went on to have quite a few children right up to the start of the 1880s, in some records, William was described as a dealer, in others as an auctioneer, for example, in the 1901 and 1911 censuses:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__4_Urban__West_Ward/Pilots_Row/1537608/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/Wellington_Street/604349/
Another example... the civil birth registration for one of their last children, Alice in 1880:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02885/2057218.pdf
This same couple had a daughter Jane baptised in St. Columb's Derry on 7 October 1864, I couldn't readily find a civil birth registration, but since the birth registration process only started that year, compliance was patchy - anyhow, here is the baptism (left page, VERY faint):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633059#page/10/mode/1up
-
Sounds right doesn't it.... except the ages of William and Martha in the two census don't match- but than can happen can't it?
How do you find things so quickly- especially in the church records?
thanks again!
-
Because fewer folk observed birthdays and maintained an awareness of such matters the way we do today, there was a tendency among many to understate age in official records, in contrast, the introduction of the Old Age Pension in 1908 to the over 70s caused a noticable phenomenon of age 'inflation' between the 1901 and 1911 Ireland censuses. In this case, I would hazard that the net effect brings William and Martha closer to the truth in 1911. In relation to speed of finding, a website that I subscribe to has transcripts for various Irish church records, while useful in itself, it also acts as a convenient 'index' for searching the NLI church record images, for I always prefer to see the originals if possible.
-
Back to reply #7, where the obituary for Arthur McDaid in the Derry Journal of 11 October 1899 mentioned 'Deceased was uncle to Mr Michael McDaid, the capable Nationalist Registration agent'.
That quite distinct occupation reads across to this man in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban_No__1/Infirmary_Road__left_hand_side_from_Creggan_Road_/1531094/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__1_/Sackville_Street/601670/
Births/baptisms for the children in the above census returns indicate that the parents were Michael McDaid (sometimes recorded as butcher, sometimes as registration agent) and Annie Doherty who married in St. Columb's Derry in 1875, Michael's address was recorded as Rosemount and his father was recorded as Bernard McDaid, a butcher:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11219/8112638.pdf
Tracking back from that information, there were a number of births / baptisms in Derry in the 1850s and 1860s for a couple called Bernard McDaid and Elizabeth Doherty, for example, the following one for a Margaret McDaid in 1869 confirms the father as Bernard McDaid, a butcher living at Rosemount:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03396/2245390.pdf
The same named couple had a son Michael baptised on 27 November 1856 in St. Columb's Derry, who must be a candidate for the Michael who married Anne Doherty in 1875 (left page below):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633058#page/64/mode/1up
So that completes the 3 brothers reflected by that 1899 obituary at reply #7, to recap:-
(1) Arthur McDaid who married: (i) Brigid Kelly (parents of Bernard McDaid who married Jane Doherty who had the son (Bernard) Joseph McDaid who moved to Strabane and married Mary Dinsmore); then Arthur married (ii) Bessie Neely;
(2) Patrick McDaid who married Sarah McLoughlin;
(3) Bernard McDaid who married Elizabeth Doherty (parents of registration agent Michael McDaid who married Anne Doherty).
And if Arthur's marriage to Bessie Neely is correct, it would suggest that the 3 of them were the sons of a butcher called John McDaid.