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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Jules1066 on Tuesday 26 May 20 14:46 BST (UK)
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I would very much appreciate some help to understand what the initials SEA mean on a military card (dated 1948) with military number 81992.
The name provided on the card is fictitious and the person’s real name probably starts with Stanley. How easy would it be to ‘Simply’ change a name on such a document?
He was a reconnaissance specialist and in WW2 was responsible for some of the beaches near Margate.
There is a number on the card. Do we quote this number if we request his service records, or is this number used for a different purpose?
This person was attached to the Royal Ordnance Army Corps and had also served in WW1 (aged 17/18). Fluent in several Indian languages it’s possible he spent time in India? Or worked closely with an Indian regiment? He told his family he was part of the Black & Tans during the Irish troubles and also served in India, and in 4th Hussars.
Thanks
Julia
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I think the SEA and the number relate to the issuing office. WW2 service numbers were 7, later 8 digits. Cards of that time didn't have sophisticated security measures but changing the name on its own wouldn't stand up to scrutiny as it wouldn't agree with other details if checked.
Presumably you know his real name date of birth and have his death cert otherwise applying for his record, which would fill in the blanks, would be difficult. You don't need his service number.
MaxD
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Thank you for your response.
I think the next step is to obtain his service records. The name change occurred sometime between 1939 and 1947.
WW1 records might be in one name...and WW2 and post in another!
Suspected multiple cases of bigamy might be behind this change of identity.
Jules
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Are you sure this is a "military" card? It looks like the standard identity card everyone got (including me). Or am I missing something?
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Are you sure this is a "military" card? It looks like the standard identity card everyone got (including me). Or am I missing something?
I agree. If you look at thr two rubber stamps dated 14 JY 48 and 30 AU 49 it is clear that the stamps are marked NATIONAL REGISTRATION OFFICE - National, not Military.
Philip
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Are you sure this is a "military" card? It looks like the standard identity card everyone got (including me). Or am I missing something?
I agree. If you look at thr two rubber stamps dated 14 JY 48 and 30 AU 49 it is clear that the stamps are marked NATIONAL REGISTRATION OFFICE - National, not Military.
Philip
A military identity card would have not only a service number but also the holders rank as well
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Thanks for pointing that out.
It was shared by his son who assumed it was his military card.
It appears to be an identity card people carried at the time? I’m not familiar with it.
Jules
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Assuming he was consistent with his date and place of birth, in your application you could explain the situation to the MOD and request that they search for him under both names if you are unsure which he enlisted under.
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For cards of this pattern, only the children's ones, coloured khaki, carried a date of birth (or to be precise a "valid until" date at age 16 after which they had to be exchanged for a blue adult one). So all you can say is that it belonged to someone surnamed Stanley who lived at those addresses which you may or may not be able to tie to the father. Did he ever tell the son it was his? Otherwise, he could have acquired it anyhow at any time and kept it as a souvenir.
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The identity card is not really relevant in finding a man's service records so as well to check what the family do actually have.
Have the family found any Great War records? Did he serve through the inter-war years? Do you have him on the 1939 register (in any variation of name?). Was he commissioned? Do the family need any help?
MaxD
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The family confirmed the following:
Enquires in the past have been under name ‘Stanley’
(* his real name may have been Bridge, in 1939 census Preston)
Said he was in the Queens 4th Hussars and served in France and Gallipoli when Churchill was there. He knew Winston Churchill (son visited Chartwell with him on more than one occasion and met the man himself). * no ‘Stanley’ records found connecting to that regiment *
After he died the family came across an old blazer with a Royal Army Ordnance Corps cloth badge on (WW1). Found a Stanley in records that is/was a possibilty but not sure - details sparse.
Churchill had an AOC driver in gallipoli. His father was very prominent in the local Branch of the British Legion, on committees, frequent quest at Mess Nights at when the 5th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers where stationed there in the 1960's, “on many occasions officers and senior NCO's came to our house for dinner.”
We know 4th Hussars were stationed in Ireland (1920s) and India which would fit with his story (spoke several indian languages, knew a lot about Ireland etc.)
But if not 4th Hussars, what else?
He had medals from WW1 but these were sold. Wife got rid of all his documents.
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Churchill had an AOC driver in gallipoli
Churchill was never in Gallipoli. He was First Sea Lord at that time.
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I get the feeling that over the course of years, elements of the jigsaw pieces, such as they are, may have become scrambled. However, press on.
Churchill served in the 4th Hussars 1895-1899 and briefly in the R Scots Fusiliers in WW1 after Gallipoli. 4th Hussars didn't go to Gallipoli. WW1 medal cards can be found for the name Stanley in the 4th Hussars and in the AOC, including one in the Indian Ordnance Department. None of these can be related to an identifiable individual without at least initials and even then it is doubtful given that only 40% of records survived.
WW2 (and inter-war years) records are not on line so that period can't be discovered that way.
But if not 4th Hussars, what else? - verging on the unanswerable?
MaxD
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Yes it appears so.
The son was nearly 20 when his father passed away. And the details must start to get mixed up over time.
It’s also not clear how much was “true” given the change of identity.
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Where can I find details for the Indian Ordnance Department? Is there a searchable Online index ?