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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Philldw on Thursday 21 May 20 10:58 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information on this lady who was my Uncles mother(?) Tragicly she drowned in Aberdeen harbour about 1960 aged 71 I believe. Her married name was Duncan and lived in Aberdeen .Her son was Alexander John Duncan b 1926 not sure of the husbands name but think its George. Always know in the family at that time as 'Kate'.
Any assistance greatly appreciated. David
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Found a death record for 1960 for a Catherine Margaret Oliphant by drowning! Also said that she was widow to William McHardy Duncan. No fathers name quoted only mother Mary Ann Shepherd.(deceased). All this just adds to the mystery as none the names seem to tie up with handed down information.
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Birthyear approx 1889 so have you checked SP for a marriage? There is one in 1911 between Catherine M Oliphant Shepherd & William McHardy Duncan
Birth 1888 - Catherine Margaret Shepherd
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Thank You CaroleW! I have looked on SP as suggested and found the marriage & birth record of Catherine. Now, If they married in 1911 there is a big gap between that and of their son Alexander John Duncan in 1926. Assuming there is a family connection. cannot, at this stage, find a death record for William.
Catherine's death record in 1960 states 'widow' so unlikely a second marriage.
Appreciate opinions. David
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Using the name William McHardy Duncan I’ve just searched Scotland’s People for a death (using only William Duncan), anywhere in Scotland, between 1926 and 1960. It returned 33 pages! But it’s ‘lockdown’ so I was happy to take the time to scroll through all the pages! Two deaths caught my eye.
1 Willian Hardy Duncan, died 1926, RD St Nicholas (not sure what area that is)
2 William Allardy Duncan, died 1928, RD Rubislaw ( which is in Aberdeen)
The name McHardy, when written at speed and possibly without care, could be misread as Allardy - I’ve just tried it! I would think that in the 1920s registering a death would require a birth certificate to be produced and maybe a ‘best guess’ at the middle name badly written on the birth certificate was Allardy. Just a thought!
Anne
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RD St Nicholas is in Aberdeen, too, so possibly both might be worth looking at more closely.
Anne
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Thank you Ann. I have looked at the entries on SP. The William Allardy one stated age '0' so a still birth. The William Hardy entry wife's name looks like Helen McKenzie not Catherine.
Back to the drawing board! Lockdown has cost me a fortune in credits on SP! Thanks again. David
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The gap of 15yrs between 1911 & 1926 could mean other children were born before Alexander
What were Williams parents names on the 1911 marriage cert and how old was William in 1911?
Did they marry before or after the 1911 census?
EDIT
Don't you have a copy of Alexander's birth cert confirming his parents names? You say "I believe her married name was Duncan" and "not sure of the husbands name but think it was George"
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There is only one parent on the wedding cert Annie Duncan Domestic Servant. He was 23 years old.
Catherine Margaret Oliphant Shepherd also has only one parent as she was illegitimate, Mary Ann Shepherd Domestic Servant she also was 23 years old.
Marriage was 13th September 1911, I do not know when the census was done. Thank You. david
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The BIRTH CERTIFICATE of Alexander John Duncan should give you a lot of information.
DO YOU HAVE THAT? You say he was born in 1926, but in the Scotland’s People index the only Alexander John Duncan I can find born around then was born in 1927.
Keep working on it! We’d all like to move this along!
Anne
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I do not have a copy of the Birth Cert for Alexander John Duncan know to the family as 'George' and his surname was Duncan. I picked up the Date 1926 on FindMyPast. So it could be 1927. The entry in SP says Tarves which is a village in Aberdeenshire. No image available. thank You david
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As it's less than 100yrs since the birth you will have to buy a copy - it can't be downloaded
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Certificates not available due to Covid 19
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This post needs to be put on hold until birth cert available as something just does not add up
Just to sum up
We have your uncle as Alexander John Duncan born 1927. His marriage cert shows only one parent - mother Annie
His mother drowned in Aberdeen and you say you have found a death in 1960 for a Catherine Margaret Oliphant ?? No death on SP under that name but you say death cert shows her as the widow of William McHardy Duncan
I cannot see any link between a woman called Catherine Margaret Oliphant Shepherd b 1888 who married in 1911 and Alexander John Duncan b 1927 who gives his mothers name as Annie?
Annie cannot be the daughter of Catherine Margaret & William McHardy Duncan as they only married in 1911
What year did Alexander John Duncan die? Where did he die?
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Thank You. I agree that without a birth cert of Alexander Duncan its difficult to proceed.
I have printed images from Scotlands People of the following:
Birth 1888 Catherine Margaret Oliphant Shepherd 218/ 37
Marriage 1911 William Duncan & Catherine Shepherd 168/1 534
Death 1960 Catherine Margaret Oliphant Duncan 168/3 66
Alexander John Duncan died in 2005 in Ellon, Aberdeen.
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We have your uncle as Alexander John Duncan born 1927. His marriage cert shows only one parent - mother Annie
I thought it was the 1911 marriage cert that named the mother as Annie DUNCAN.
What were Williams parents names on the 1911 marriage cert and how old was William in 1911?
Did they marry before or after the 1911 census?
There is only one parent on the wedding cert Annie Duncan Domestic Servant. He was 23 years old.
Catherine Margaret Oliphant Shepherd also has only one parent as she was illegitimate, Mary Ann Shepherd Domestic Servant she also was 23 years old.
Marriage was 13th September 1911, I do not know when the census was done. Thank You. david
Debra :)
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Alexander John Duncan died in 2005 in Ellon, Aberdeen
The mother's maiden surname on that death is MILNE ???
ev
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The William Allardy one stated age '0' so a still birth.
It's not a still birth. There is a separate register for still births and it is not available to view.
If the age at death is shown as 0 it means the child was born alive but died before its first birthday.
There is a listing of a birth of William Allardy Duncan in Aberdeen Rubislaw in 1928.
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Alexander John Duncan died in 2005 in Ellon, Aberdeen
The mother's maiden surname on that death is MILNE ???
ev
I noticed that too, Ev. Must be unconnected to the family of William and Kate you would think?
There is a death of a George Duncan:
George DUNCAN
Age 80
Mother's maiden name OLIPHANT
2005
301/ 718
Aberdeen
There is also another death with mother also showing as Oliphant:
William DUNCAN
Age 73
Mother's maiden name OLIPHANT
1991
300/ 562
Aberdeen
Monica
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I am looking for information on this lady who was my Uncles mother(?) Tragicly she drowned in Aberdeen harbour about 1960 aged 71 I believe. Her married name was Duncan and lived in Aberdeen .Her son was Alexander John Duncan b 1926 not sure of the husbands name but think its George. Always know in the family at that time as 'Kate'.
Any assistance greatly appreciated. David
David, your original post mentions that Alexander John was your uncle. Given the confusion on the first name, have you found his marriage entry on the index at SP to confirm how he is named?
There looks to be 2 marriage entries for an Alexander John Duncan from Ellon. One in 1951 and the second in 1952.
Monica
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Re my reply, Reply #9, I apologise for S H O U T I N G via use of capital letters.
It’s really not like me! Must be to do with the stress of lockdown.
Sorry. Keep up the search!
Anne
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Anne, No Problem! I have just had 38 days of isolation stuck in the same building to comply with Maltese law on over 65's & diabetics. I thank everyone for their help with my searches. To start with I only family memories and a memory of meeting my Scottish relatives when very young.
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Given that Alexander John Duncan is your uncle that should mean that either; One of your parent's is his sibling so, does your parent's documents show details of their mother? Were there other siblings?
Or, he must have married an aunt of yours. If that is the case you must know who he married & could obtain a copy of that marriage certificate. Who did Alexander marry if that is the case?
flst
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Alexander’s 1927 birth cert is going to be applied for once the current situation ends. That will show who his parents were. The object is to find details of his mothers death by drowning so without knowing her name - that is an impossible task given the number of Duncan entries
His marriage cert would have to be applied for as he probably married more than 75yrs ago so it’s the same waiting game
It is clear from all the info posted so far that the 1960 death does not “fit the bill”
EDIT
There are 4 Duncan/Milne marriages in Aberdeen between 1915-1927. Based purely on name - the likeliest is the 1919 between Alexander John Duncan & Edith Milne.
However - that pre-supposes they married in Aberdeen. There are another 7 in other counties for the same period
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Alexander was an uncle by marriage to my mothers sister. They married in Sept 1949. She was known as Bettty Duncan but probably Elizabeth. Certs not available at the moment. thank you.
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See my addition to my reply above
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There is a marriage in 1949 in Ellon for an Alexander HARDY Duncan to an Elizabeth McDon...Smith or Davidson. Indexed twice with the different surnames.
Also a marriage in 1949 for an Alexander John Duncan to an Elizabeth Cruickshank in Springburn Lanarkshire.
Is it one of these?
Monica
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I believe the 2nd one has promise.
Betty's surname was Johnston but her mothers maiden name was Cruickshank!
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Don't think that the marriage for Betty would be indexed under her mother's maiden name, unless she was illegitimate and went by her mother's name. You know your mother's history so that is not the case.
Have to admit, the issue of George v. Alexander John bothers me :-\
There is this marriage in 1949 in Aberdeen Southern District:
George Duncan and Elizabeth Allan Johnston
Can't be viewed online due to the year.
There are two birth indexed entries for an Elizabeth Allan Johnston in 1927 in Aberdeen (St Nicholas and St Marchar districts). What do you know about Betty?
Monica
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Elizabeth Allan Johnston, other surname Duncan and mother's name Cruickshanks, died in 1999 at the age of 72 (birth year c. 1927). The death shows in Aberdeen.
Monica
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Bettys mother was Martha Cruickshank, father William
Johnston. Born in Aberdeen in 1926(?) Believe she died 1999 of liver cancer.
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That fits with the above details, David.
Not sure how the name Alexander John has come in to play along the years. I am thinking that Elizabeth's marriage to George is the correct one for them.
Also, from earlier, we had a possible death for George Duncan, with mother's name of Oliphant in 2005 in Aberdeen (with a birth year of circa 1925).
Monica
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Thank you everyone for your help on this post. I had an email from a 1st cousin who's mother was my mother's sister. She confirmed that she was told that Old Kate did drown in Aberdeen harbour during freezing weather. Did not have a specific date but would about the time period I have been looking at.
Will need to wait for time when certs will be available. Thanks Again! david
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David, I thought this search had been done, but on checking, don't think it had.
William McHardy Duncan, aged 57 and a handyman by occupation died 1 Feb 1945 from pulmonary tuberculosis. He showed as married to Catherine Margaret Oliphant Shepperd. Living at 6 Crown Lane Aberdeen. As you had on the 1911 marriage, only mother Annie Duncan is showing for parent.
Monica
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Just as a possible, I thought this might be a young William in 1891. Everyone showing as born in Aberdeen:
William Duncan 76 carter
Mary Duncan 78
Ann Duncan 23
William Duncan 4 grandson
Address: 4 1/2 North Constitution St, Aberdeen St Nicholas
Wondering whether William could be great grandson given the age of William Snr and Mary?
Monica
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Elizabeth Allan Duncan and George Duncan was my grandparents if you need and help I'm more than happy to help . People called her "Betty" and George fought in the war and I think she did work in the work too but I can't remember exactly what she did .
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I found out it was George ( his d.o.d is 3 nov ) mother did drowned in Aberdeen Harbour when he was adult sometime after he married Elizabeth allan johnston (married in 17 September 1949) George had one brother and one sister don't know their names . George and Elizabeth is my grandparents