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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: gpiazzon on Wednesday 20 May 20 15:43 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for some help as I seem to have hit a dead-end tracking the paternal lineage on my grandfather's side. It was a bit tricky as Stanley is a very common name, but confident with what I have. Struggling to get any detail's on William's father.
This is what I have:
Frederick Stanley (1892-1978)
William Henry Stanley (1861-1935) - married Elizabeth Read
Matthew Stanley (1837-1886) - Butcher - married Emma Rainbow
William Stanley (1806-1847) - Publican at Swanswell Tavern - married Mary Gardener
Can't seem to get any further back that that (sticking with following the paternal lineage)
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There is this Stanley/Gardner marriage licence but does not tie in with your dates
Licence 07 Mar 1815
William Stanley of the parish of St Luke, London
Occupation Ribbon Manufacturer
Status Bachelor Age 21 or upwards
Mary Gardner of the parish of St Trinity, Coventry
Spouse's age Minor
Also mentioned
Stephen Stanley occ Ribbon Manufacturer of St Luke, Middlesex
John Gardner of the Parish of St Trinity, Coventry, Ribbon Manufacturer
The natural and lawful fathers of the above
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Hi Rosie,
Thanks for this.
I've found this which is similar but slightly different:
I have on the Holy Trinity, Coventry CD...
Marriage
8th Mar 1815 by licence
William Stanley batchelor of St Luke, London, Middx (minor with consent of Stephen Stanley) and Mary Gardner spinster of this parish (with consent of John Gardner)
witnesses John Gardner, Harriett Gardner, and Stephen Stanley
If he was born in 1806 then he'd definitely be a minor in 1815.
There's a few other records though of a Stephen Stanley (ribbon manufacturer) with a son William in 1794 but I'm not sure they're the same person as I found death records for William in 1847 aged 41 and confirming him as a publican at Swanswell Tavern.
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Where are the family in 1841
Do you have the death certificate for William Stanley c1847, GRO has 2 deaths around that time
STANLEY, WILLIAM age 41
1847 Dec Quarter in COVENTRY Volume 16 Page 368
STANLEY, WILLIAM age 55
1848 Dec Quarter in COVENTRY Volume 16 Page 258
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Don't have the death certificate.
Pretty confident it's the former of those two options based on this newspaper article which confirms it as being the William Stanley of Swanswell Tavern:
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000384/18471217/030/0004
and also found this link:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2CG-2RS3
Family should be in Coventry in 1841. In 1837 when their son Matthew is born, William is listed as Publican (Swanswell Tavern, Coventry)
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Just found the 1841
Willm Stanley age 30 Publican
Sarah 28
Sarah age 5
Mathew age 3
H0107/1153 bk5 f56 p12
Road looks like Swanswell Field
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Interesting.
I wonder who Sarah is as Matthews mother 3 years earlier is listed as Mary (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XXYM-WL4)
Also William seems younger on this if he's 30 in 1841, but Matthew's age pretty much tallys up and so would the location.
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I see what you mean about the surname Stanley
There is also a baptism in 1842 for a William Stanley parents William & Mary - publican of Swanswell Street.
STANLEY, WILLIAM mmn GARDNER
1842 June Quarter in THE CITY OF COVENTRY Volume 16 Page 373
1851 it looks as though this William could be in Swanswell Street
HO107/2068 f296 p1
Thomas Thorp. age 47 occ Licensed Victualler bn Coventry
Eliza Thorp Wife 34 bn Coventry
William Stanley Son-In-Law age 8 bn Coventry
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Interesting. I wonder if they had another son shortly before William (snr) died who then lived with the Thorps?
I've ordered a copy of William's death certificate which will hopefully shed some more light.
Also found this image of the marriage (https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2445&h=9971904&tid=104591390&pid=222194533104&hid=1042249800687&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ydp154&_phstart=default&usePUBJs=true¤tPageIsStart=) which I believe is the right one.
Show's them both as minors and Williams father as Stephen. If this is right, William seems to come from Middlesex but struggling to find any records there that tally with this (birth around 1806/07).
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If he married in 1815 he must have been born before 1806.
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Tree on Ancestry has his parents as Stephen Stanley and Elizabeth Dodd. It suggests that they were from Warwickshire, and his birth just happened in London. Their marriage in 1793.
For consideration.
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That marriage ties in with the licence I found earlier (apart from the age of William that I quoted but looking again it is minor -sorry). The witnesses John Gardner & Harriet Gardner.
I think the legal age with consent at that time was 14 for boys and 12 for girls. The licence confirmed the consent of both fathers
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I'm awaiting a copy of the death certificate but pretty confident on having the same William Stanley who died in 1947 aged 41, was married to Mary Gardner (both as minors), had a son Matthew Stanley in 1837 and was a publican at Swanswell Tavern in Coventry.
The confusion is definitely around his birth. If he was born in 1806/07 then he'd have only been around 9 when married! Would that have even been posible?
If he was older in 1815 at the point of being married, then we must be looking at two different William Stanleys?
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Morning Post 27 February 1815
Partnerships dissolved
John McRae & Stephen Stanley, Ribbon Manufacturers -Wood Street, London
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If they married in 1815, when did they have children, or a large missing gap?
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Know there was a son Matthew Stanley (1837) who's parents were William and Mary Stanley - publicans at Swanswell Tavern
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What makes this even more curious is:
William Stanley died aged 41 in the Coventry Herald is listed as "of the Swanswell Tavern"
the other
William Stanley died aged 55 in the Coventry Herald is listed as "of Weston Street" which from this link (https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/warks/vol8/pp24-33) seems to be in pretty much the same place as the Swanswell Tavern.
If it were the former, then he'd have been born in c1806, married at age 9 and had Matthew aged 31ish
If the latter, then he'd have been born in c1794, married at age 21 and had Matthew aged 43ish
Hopefully the death certificate will help confirm the right one!
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Sarah Stanley from 1841 census looks to be this one:
Sarah Stanley of Bilston Female Age: 21 Birth Date:1835
Marriage Date: 9 Jun 1856 Marriage Place: St. Leonard'S, Bilston, Stafford,
Father: William Stanley (a publican)
Spouse: Richard Parker Bagley (pattern maker)
However there looks to be other Stanleys in Bilston also.
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Finally managed to get hold of the death certificates and confident it's the former (Born c.1806, died aged 41 in 1847).
Struggling to find a birth record, or marriage details that would tally up with the dates.
Also struggling to find his parents.
Any help would be greatfully received.
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Have you looked for a will for him, just to see if it has children or anything to help?
Think there might be one on F M P, not yet looked at Ancestry.
Oh, died 14th December 1847, intestate.
There is her signature on the middle page.
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Found the will on FindMyPast. Super interesting to see - thanks for the recommendation of that!
It only seems to mention his wife - Mary, although I know they had a son - Matthew Stanley.
Still struggling to find any decent links to William's parents.
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The GRO confirms that Matthew's mothers maiden name was "Gardener"
I also found a transcription from a gravestone which read:
"Sacred to the memory of WILLIAM STANLEY who died Dec 14th 1847 aged 41 years.
Also of MARY wife of the above who died April 2, 1850 aged 44 years."
Problem is, I can't seem to find any record of her death, or their marriage (that would tie in with their DOBs as the only Stanley/Gardner marriage I can seem to find is 1815 which can't be right).
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Could it be that she remarried? Mary Stanley widow married Francis Thorp 24th Dec 1848 at St Peters Coventry. Her occupation was licensed victualler and address Swanswell St, her father was John Gardner. Both William Stanley and Francis Thorp were licensees of the Swanswell Inn in Swanswell Street. https://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/cph/main/pub.php?pg=swanswell_inn
A Mary Thorpe died June Q 1850 with a postem on free bmd saying likely burial 7th April 1850 St Peters, abode Swanswell St aged 47, could this be her? In 1851 William Stanley (1842) is living with Thomas and Eliza Thorp.
Everything but their ages seems to point to the 1815 marriage, with the children including William 1794 being baptised in Hinckley.
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Thanks Julie - Yes that looks right and the death seems to tally with the other facts I've found - thank you!
Also that makes sense with their son William living with the Thorps.
Not sure what you mean about the baptisms...
I have Matthew's baptism, 1837 in the parish of the Holy Trinity, Coventry.
and Williams, 1842 in the parish of the Holy Trinity St Peters Chapel, county of Warwick (but believe that's in Coventry)
The 1794 date I think relates to a different William Stanley. The facts I've been able to prove are William dying in 1847, aged 41, putting his DOB around 1806.
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Sorry i missed a bit out about the baptisms I meant William and Mary Gardner who married 1815 in Coventry, William's parents were Stephen Stanley and Elizabeth, and they had children baptised in Hinckley, the baptism records show they lived in Coventry. That William was born 1794 and was just under 21 therefore still a minor as was Mary when they married. Both Matthew 1837 and William 1842 mother's maiden name was Gardener/Gardner, and that is the only marriage that seems to fit but the DOBs don't fit. Hope i make sense :)
St Peters is near to Swanswell pool in Coventry, and Holy Trinity is in the town centre (broadgate)
I have an apprentice enrolment CD for Coventry and Matthew was enrolled as an apprentice butcher 09/07/1851 to James Adams (Matthew with James in 1851 census) Matthew was then transferred to Henry Marlow Butcher in 5/02/1856. it also confirms his father as William a victualler. I was hoping there would be a William on there for you whose DOB was around 1806 but no luck i'm afraid
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No problem - thanks for looking Julie. Interesting to hear some more detail on Matthew's career!
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Decided to pick this up again, but still hitting a bit of a brick wall with William Stanley (preventing me going back even further).
Last confidence I have is Matthew Stanley - 1837-1886 (Butcher) married to Emma Rainbow.
From various sources I can see that Matthew's father is William Stanley, and mother is Mary Gardener/Gardner.
My understanding is that William was a Victualier/Publican of the Swanswell Tavern (TBC).
I believe he married Mary in 1815, but struggling to get 100% confirmation on his age etc.
Looks like there are two William Stanley's from the same area, one who died in 1847 aged 41, and one who died in 1848 aged 55.
Struggling to find both on the 1841 census to help rule one out (as I'd expect to see William, Mary and Matthew listed together).
I believe William may have been born in Middlesex (again TBC), but until I can confidently find the right William I'm reluctant to try and go back further for fear of going down the wrong path.
Any additional help would be hugely appreciated.
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Just adding to the above - Found the grave inscriptions for the two different William Stanleys:
William Stanley who died in 1848 (aged 55) was married to Sophia Stanley - so that must be the one born in 1794 (ish)
William Stanley who died in 1847 (aged 41) was married to Mary who died 2/4/50 (aged 44) - So it looks like they were both born c.1806 (which makes the case of the marriage even more curious).
Pretty confident based on all the facts that this is the right person in my family - just seems so weird with the marriage dates.
It seems so unusual (them both being c9?), surely there must be some further records/newspaper articles or something pertaining to this marriage.