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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: allister1964 on Monday 18 May 20 23:29 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know about the lives and descendants of the following individuals? Alexander Donaldson McGookin (born 1914) Boneybefore, Carrickfergus ; Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) Albert Road, Carrickfergus ; John McGookin (born 1904) Ballyboley, Ballycor ; Robert James McGookin (born 1888) Headwood, Kilwaughter ; Samuel McGookin (born 1886) Headwood, Kilwaughter ; Samuel McGookin (born 1896) Unity Street, Carrickfergus ; Thomas McGookin (born 1913) Ballyboley, Ballycor ; Thomas Henry McGookin (born 1911) Albert Road, Carrickfergus ; William James McGookin (born 1891) Front Quarter, Carrickfergus or William McCallion McGookin (born 1906) Ballyalbanagh, Ballycor.
The above are all blood relatives of mine, and any assistance, would be much appreciated.
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For civil records up to 1921 (free)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
For civil records after 1921 (pay per view)- marriages more than 75 years old & deaths more than 50 years old-
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
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wanted the lives and descendants of the following individuals?
I checked available census 1901 and 1911http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie and quickly picked up a few apparent blood males & several apparent blood females in Ballycor and Kilwaughter. Are you aware of all this, I scanned your posts and see you took a Y
test; and you are a Girvin so perhaps further males are only what you are interested in. I noticed the Ballycor civil parish appear to be Presbyterians, The KIlwaughter Methodists and the Carrickfergus not yet explored
I reformed your list to parishes presuming some of your blood relatives have stayed there
William McCallion McGookin (born 1906) Ballyalbanagh Ballycor
John McGookin (born 1904) Ballyboley Ballycor ;
Thomas McGookin (born 1913) Ballyboley Ballycor ;
Thomas Henry McGookin (born 1911) Albert Road Carrickfergus ;
Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) Albert Road Carrickfergus
in 1918 lennonwylie L McGookin is a grocer in Albert road & the only McGookin listed
Alexander Donaldson McGookin (born 1914) Boneybefore Carrickfergus ;
William James McGookin (born 1891) Front Quarter Carrickfergus
Samuel McGookin (born 1896) Unity Street Carrickfergus ;
Robert James McGookin (born 1888) Headwood Kilwaughter ;
Samuel McGookin (born 1886) Headwood Kilwaughter [a tailor1911]
have you seen the numerous family trees covering your McGookin blood relatives on https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/mcgookin
I await your response
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Thanks BallyaltikilliganG,
Since my original post, I've found that Arthur John McGookin married Sarah Clyde, and had three children. Thomas Henry (born 1911) married Edith Clements , Sarah (born 1913), and Arthur John (born 1915), may have married Elsie Togneri.
Samuel McGookin (born 1896), brother of the above Arthur John, married Margaret White and had two sons and one daughter. They lived in the Carrickfergus area.
Another, Samuel McGookin (born 1886), from the Kilwaughter area, married his relative, Jeanie Crawford in 1924. His brother, Robert James McGookin (born 1888) married Martha Wilkin in 1922, and had at least two children.
All the McGookin individuals I've named, are related to me through my mothers side of the family, so
the results of the Y Chromosome DNA test which I undertook, have no connection.
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Since my original post, I've found that Arthur John McGookin married Sarah Clyde, and had three children. Thomas Henry (born 1911) married Edith Clements , Sarah (born 1913), and Arthur John (born 1915), may have married Elsie Togneri.
Here are links to your information.
Marriage on 4th September 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09955/5619613.pdf
Thomas Henry born 26th December 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01505/1611398.pdf
Sarah McGookin born 6th November 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01434/1588027.pdf
Arthur John McGookin born 23rd October 1915
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01363/1561976.pdf
All at Albert Road, Carrickfergus.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ppg/
KG
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Recently I've found another two relatives: James Lennon McGookin (b: 1920) who I think may have been in the Royal Air Force, and John Donaldson McGookin (1920-80). Both of these men were married, James may have lived in the Greater London area, and John in Carrickfergus.
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John Donaldson Mcgookin my Grandfather...(brother Donald sister molly( married Henderson 1 son Colin) Married to Mary Eileen Mcdonald lived Boneybefore. One surviving child Eileen Mary (Marleen). Married John Strange... 4 children Wesley. Lorna Martin Gareth... & G & GG children... Lots more info would need to check with parents to give accurate
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James Lennon McGookin (b: 1920)....
James Lennon McGookin born 7 March 1920 in Carrickfergus. MMN Clyde
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01227/1510616.pdf
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Thanks Les. I was aware of Eileen (born 1947), so this has helped me take things a stage further. Please keep in touch, as this family tree goes back to the late 17th century, and includes thousands of individuals. I appreciate any help you can give me, and will be happy to share my knowledge as well.
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James Lennon McGookin (b: 1920)....
James Lennon McGookin born 7 March 1920 in Carrickfergus. MMN Clyde
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01227/1510616.pdf
Further child
Mary Elizabeth McGookin born 13 December 1921.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01171/1488151.pdf
KG
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Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) did in fact marry Elsie Togneri. She is my mother's stepsister. Do you have any information about her parents or siblings?
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) did in fact marry Elsie Togneri.
Can you advise when and where they married?
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Elsie and Arthur are the witnesses on my grandmother's marriage license, so at that point in 1941 Elsie and Arthur were not yet married. But I'll get back to you on a more precise date.
Mike
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Elsie and Arthur appear to have gotten married in 1941. You can see an image of the registration here: https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/marriage
The fee to view it is minimal. That's how I got my grandmother's marriage record.
Mike
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The General Register Office (Northern Ireland) website marriage index shows a marriage on Christmas Day 1941 (registered Ards) between Arthur McGookin and Ersilia Togneria, the record is pay to view, it should show the father and father's occupation for each party.
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There is a 1941 Larne Times reference to an Elsie Togneri of West Street, Carrickfergus, also 1937 and 1939 newspaper references to Peter Togneri of the same street, described as the proprietor of a fish and chip saloon and ice cream seller.
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Adding to this...I found out that there were two women named Ersilia Togneri. It's on my to-do list to figure out which one is which, but one of them did marry Arthur McGookin. And one, maybe the same person, was born in 1914 and was the daughter of Maria Togneri (nee Cardosi).
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Adding to this...I found out that there were two women named Ersilia Togneri. It's on my to-do list to figure out which one is which, but one of them did marry Arthur McGookin. And one, maybe the same person, was born in 1914 and was the daughter of Maria Togneri (nee Cardosi).
If you have seen the 1941 marriage record, you should know who her father was. What is his name?
The North Down Herald and County Down Independent of 23 January 1926 has a mention of a 50 year old Mr. G. Togneri of Ballymagee Street in Bangor Co. Down (now High Street), attending the Bangor Local Education Sub-Committee with his child Elsie Togneri in relation to Elsie's poor school attendance.
Also note the following Togneri (Umberto) and Teresa Funia in Ballymagee Street Bangor having a son Giuseppe in 1917, maybe related:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540614.pdf
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Also note the following Togneri (Umberto) and Teresa Funia in Ballymagee Street Bangor having a son Giuseppe in 1917, maybe related:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540614.pdf
Marriage of Umberto Togneri & Amelia Funai gives his father as Guiseppo Togneri-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09792/5554801.pdf
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Adding to this...I found out that there were two women named Ersilia Togneri. It's on my to-do list to figure out which one is which, but one of them did marry Arthur McGookin. And one, maybe the same person, was born in 1914 and was the daughter of Maria Togneri (nee Cardosi).
If you have seen the 1941 marriage record, you should know who her father was. What is his name?
The North Down Herald and County Down Independent of 23 January 1926 has a mention of a 50 year old Mr. G. Togneri of Ballymagee Street in Bangor Co. Down (now High Street), attending the Bangor Local Education Sub-Committee with his child Elsie Togneri in relation to Elsie's poor school attendance.
Also note the following Togneri (Umberto) and Teresa Funia in Ballymagee Street Bangor having a son Giuseppe in 1917, maybe related:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540614.pdf
I didn't pay to see Elsie's marriage record, because at that time I saw no reason to. I did, however, see my grandmother's marriage record which lists Elsie as one of the witnesses.
That newspaper citation is helpful, thanks. That G. Togneri (Giulio) is my grandfather, but in 1926 his age would have been 37 not 50. He did have a daughter Elsie and he did live on that street in Co. Down.
I'm interested in this, because my grandmother had three kids with Giulio while he was still married to another woman (and not even Elsie's mom, but yet another woman). And I can't find any of those birth records (one of which is my mother).
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Also note the following Togneri (Umberto) and Teresa Funia in Ballymagee Street Bangor having a son Giuseppe in 1917, maybe related:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01307/1540614.pdf
Marriage of Umberto Togneri & Amelia Funai gives his father as Guiseppo Togneri-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09792/5554801.pdf
That marriage record is helpful, thanks. I think it proves that Umberto is my grandfather's brother...having the same father listed on both of their marriage records.
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This is the birth record of the Elsie Togneri that I "know". Father is that Giulio of High Street.
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Okay, I think I was mistaken and there is only one woman named Ersilia (Elsie) Togneri. I was confused by someone's family tree on Ancestry, which incorrectly reports her father as Umberto.
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Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) did in fact marry Elsie Togneri. She is my mother's stepsister. Do you have any information about her parents or siblings?
Arthur was my dad's uncle my dad was Jim his brother was Sam who went to live in Canada. I know my mother will know her brothers name he used to work in the chip shop with Elsie. I remember her as being quite glamorous with hair always swept up in a bun
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Arthur John McGookin (born 1915) did in fact marry Elsie Togneri. She is my mother's stepsister. Do you have any information about her parents or siblings?
Arthur was my dad's uncle my dad was Jim his brother was Sam who went to live in Canada. I know my mother will know her brothers name he used to work in the chip shop with Elsie. I remember her as being quite glamorous with hair always swept up in a bun
I think that chip shop was my grandfather's! My mother has said that they had several restaurants, including a fish and chips place and an ice cream place, which she also worked in. I put some of Elsie's information on WikiTree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Togneri-31
My mother was 10 when Elsie married. It looks like Elsie and Arthur stayed in Ireland. My mother left the UK in the 50's when she married my father.
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I spoke to my mum this morning she said Elsie's brother who worked with her in chippy was called Julio. I remember him very well. As far as I remember fish and chip shop also sold icecream I don't think there was a separate shop . But I will check that out for u x
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Could you let me know what your grandfather's name was please x
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You should be able to see the relatives that I entered into WikiTree. Giulio (my grandfather) had a daughter, Elsie; a son Giulio, who you remember; plus other children, including my mother. Giulio (senior) was married three times. You can't see my mother's name on WikiTree because she's still living and I kept her info private.
I'll have to tell my mother, to see what else she remembers. Keep in mind that my mother left Scotland in 1958. Maybe my mother and your mother never met?
The fish and chips place may have also sold ice cream, I don't know. But they had an ice cream place in Belfast (Tog's Ices) before moving to Scotland.
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I don't really know much about who owned what . I will speak to my mother tomorrow about it she would remember better than me. I remember icecream was sold from the fish and chicken bar which is what the chip shop was called if I remember correctly . Their son John opened a chip shop facing the castle I ll ask my husband what the name of it was I think it was the castle chippy x
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It would be handy if u had some way of sending me your mums name. If you can pm me or similar but I understand wish to retain your mum's privacy
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Does your mother want to talk to her? I can ask my mother. Keep in mind, she's 92. Tell me again how your mother is related?
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It's unlikely mum would have the time . She is 89 this year and everyday she has her sister come to her , her sister is very poorly so mum has to basically do everything for her!
My mum is not directly related to Artie only through marriage. My dad was a cousin of John mcGookin my maiden name was mcgookin. My grandfather was William james mcgookin. He was a brother of artie .
I believe they built carrickfergus cinema together
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Is your mom related to Elsie? Giulio (junior) is my mother's stepbrother (same father, different mother).
I'd want to thoroughly understand the situation before saying anything to my mother. Her father, Giulio (senior), was married to another woman while he had three children with my grandmother. Elsie was a daughter from Giulio's first marriage. Not sure if he had any children with his second wife. My grandmother was his third wife. They didn't marry until my mother was about 10. She had two older brothers, one of whom was given away at birth and she didn't know about until about 20 years ago. Her father had financial trouble and died after being hit by a truck. So some of this I know for a fact she doesn't want to remember.
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No my father was related to Arthur . Arthur was my father's uncle so he would've been my great uncle . We have no relation to Elsie other than through marriage . Sorry if I led u to believe anything different .
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Do you have any pictures of Elsie or Giulio?
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No sorry we don't I ll check with mum but I doubt it.
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Were you or your mother working at the restaurant in the 1940's or 50's?
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No just related to Arthur through marriage and we were customers .
Can I ask which town in Italy Elsie was from please? I remember John telling my husband and me but I cant remember the name of it x
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Elsie was actually born in Scotland, but her father and the rest of the family were from Barga, Italy. There are still a lot of Togneri's in Barga.
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Thank u for that I ve asked on fb to see if anyone on carrickfergus memories has any pictures of fish and chicken bar in carrickfergus . Will let u know if I hear anything .
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Oh, your fish and chips place was in Carrickfergus. My grandfather's place was in Scotland and/or Belfast. I don't think my mother was ever in Ireland, just Northern Ireland and Scotland.
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Yes carrickfergus is in northern ireland . That's the chip shop Elsie and Athur owned.
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What years did they own it?
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Sorry I don't know that
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Hello Elaine, I am the author of this post, and have just sent you a PM.
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I asked my mother. She remembers the fish place in Carrickfergus. She said that was Elsie's and Giulio's restaurant and not my grandfather's. My mother never worked at that one, but she remembers it. She said that Elsie moved to Barga, Italy after divorcing Arthur...where she remarried and passed away.