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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: Elizadoolittle on Saturday 09 May 20 13:56 BST (UK)
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Hi I'm picking back up after a gap of 15 years and have come to a full stop with John Hughes who in 1861 census was aged 21 years working as a Blacksmith described as son and living in Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant but says living with John and Elizabeth Williams. I've tried to trace him back from there but cannot find him. Can anyone help please? I think the smithy was in Park Street but not sure. Also wonder if Elizabeth was his mother who possibly remarried.
Many thanks.
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2 possibilities
He was illegit then Elizabeth married John Williams
He was legit - Elizabeth was a widow & married John Williams
What birthplace is shown in 1861 and subsequent censuses
Have you found him in 1851?
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Hi CaroleW
Can't find him in 1851 census but he was born in Llanrhaeadr according to 1861 census.
Thanks for your help.
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do you have his marriage certificate? Or birth certificates for any of the children.?
I think it's possible he is actually son in law. There's a marriage registered at Llanfyllin june qtr 1860 for John Hughes & Jane Williams, civil marriage according to North Wales bmd site.
Birth reg for daughter Jane who is 8 months old in 1861
Jane Hughes sept qtr 1860 Llanfyllin vol 11b pg 261 mmn Williams
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Possible Marriage: John Williams . Elizabeth Hughes
Jan-Mar 1852 . Oswestry . Volume 6a . Page 936
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Thank you to everyone for your help and advice. Have only just started looking into this part of the family so will try and order marriage certificate for Elizabeth and new husband and check them out again on 1851 census.
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The couples from that marriage reference match up the other way. The other male on the page is Thomas Savin and in later census years his wife is Elizabeth.
From the Shrewsbury Chronicle 27 Feb 1852
'24th inst. at Whittington, Mr Thomas Savin, draper and grocer, to Elizabeth, second daughter of the late Mr Edward Hughes, of the Park farm, near Oswestry.'
John Williams married the other female Sarah Gardner.
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Thank you for that - I think Thomas Savin would have been a bit 'posh' for our family anyway - they were mostly ag labs! That's why I was so excited when I actually found a blacksmith for a change!
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The smithy ‘refail’ in Welsh was in the Market square Llanrhaeadr YM, Denbighshire
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Many thanks. I called at Llanrhaeadr last week but they had the roads up through the village so didn't manage to stop. I will be making a return journey though.
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Yippee the marriage certificate finally arrived today for John Hughes and Jane Williams married 8 Jun 1860. Johns father was Robert Hughes (a Carrier) and Janes dad was John Williams (labourer). Need to try and find Robert (and John) on 1851 census if anyone can help?
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Hopefully, you can look these up, using another source, and get them on one list: 1851 HO107 2499 / 646 and 647
Father, Robert: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LVD
Mother, Rose, maybe: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LK4
Or, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LV6
John: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LVF
Siblings:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LVX
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LKH
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LK6
There are more, but I can’t see if it is one household:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDS-LV6
Possible death:
HUGHES, ROSE 54
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in LLANFYLLIN Volume 11B Page 177
If Rose was Robert’s second wife?
Dec 1847 Llanfyllin 27 151
HUGHES Robert
EVANS Rose
1871, if Mary is Robert’s wife: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5P5-DNR
Jamjar
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think Mary is more likely to be the mother
1841 Bridge St, Cefn Coch, Llanrhaiadr HO107/1435/6 folio 42 pg 11
Robert Hughes 45 carrier
Mary 40
Mary 4
John 7 weeks
all born in county
baptism in Llanrahaiadr for Mary 15 Jan 1837 dau of Robert Hughes, carrier, and Mary.
Possible marriage same parish 24 Sept 1836 for Robert Hughes, widower, and Mary Jones, spinster. He signed, she marked, witnesses Edward Humphreys & Ellis Humphreys.
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think Mary is more likely to be the mother
1841 Bridge St, Cefn Coch, Llanrhaiadr HO107/1435/6 folio 42 pg 11
Robert Hughes 45 carrier
Mary 40
Mary 4
John 7 weeks
all born in county
baptism in Llanrahaiadr for Mary 15 Jan 1837 dau of Robert Hughes, carrier, and Mary.
Possible marriage same parish 24 Sept 1836 for Robert Hughes, widower, and Mary Jones, spinster. He signed, she marked, witnesses Edward Humphreys & Ellis Humphreys.
HUGHES, JOHN mmn JONES
GRO Reference: 1840 J Quarter in LLANFYLLIN UNION Volume 27 Page 88
HUGHES, JOHN mmn JONES
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in LLANFYLLIN UNION Volume 27 Page 76
Jamjar
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as John is 7 weeks old at the 1841 census taken 6 June it could be the 1841 registration but not the 1840 one. Haven't found a baptism for him as yet.
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Thank you both jamjar and osprey for all your help. I'll look forward to looking them up later.
Cheers.
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as John is 7 weeks old at the 1841 census taken 6 June it could be the 1841 registration but not the 1840 one. Haven't found a baptism for him as yet.
I've looked on both the C of E and non-conformist registers but nothing showing. Like osprey, I'd guess the June Q 1841 would be most likely. This is shoiwng as Llanrhaeadr YM on the North Wales BMD.
Gadget
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This may be of interest?
http://history.powys.org.uk/school1/llanfyllin/rdrtithe.shtml