RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: vapcq45 on Saturday 09 May 20 11:45 BST (UK)
-
Morning
On the 1st image attached, can anyone kindly tell me what the following means?
W.Op (Air) LEA
F.2171.No.22 ACSB
On the 2nd image, what does the entry under time forfeited mean?
Many thanks
Val
-
I would also be grateful for help with this image too please.
He died aged 19 with all crew when their Lancaster, out on first flight without trainer, went down in the Irish sea when on a sortie.
-
The time forfeited is easy to answer, he had been a naughty boy, the first time his punishment was 5 days confined to camp and the second time it was 10 days confined to camp. Those 15 days would not count to the time he served in the RAF.
The rest I am still looking at.
-
The 3rd image is mostly detailing his traing to become a flight engineer and wireless operator.
3 S of TT is No. 3 School of Technical Training which at the time was at Blackpool
4 S of TT was RAF St. Athan in South Wales, he went there twice
1661 CU is short of 1661 Heavy Conversion Unit, at the time it was based at RAF Winthorpe and trained aircrew who were converting to the Lancaster, Halifax or Sterling bombers as well as people like the one you are interested in.
-
Now the first image. He was recommended for training as a Wireless Operator (Air) as in flying. The LEA I don't know.
F2171. No.22. Is form No. 2171 and he was entry 22 on it. Every form in the military has a number. A.C.S.B. stand for Air Crew Selection Board.
Hope that helps.
-
Oh my goodness this is wonderful information! Thank you so much.
I thought he might be naughty at some point.
You've answered the locations - so good to know he was at Blackpool and St. Athan and now I can follow these up. He ended his days with 1661 CU at RAF Winthorpe and as an aside, years later a fishing trawler pulled up the propeller of the Lancaster from the Irish sea and it's now on display at the solway aircraft Museum.
Can't thank you enough!
Val
-
Oh my goodness this is wonderful information! Thank you so much.
I thought he might be naughty at some point.
You've answered the locations - so good to know he was at Blackpool and St. Athan and now I can follow these up. He ended his days with 1661 CU at RAF Winthorpe and as an aside, years later a fishing trawler pulled up the propeller of the Lancaster from the Irish sea and it's now on display at the solway aircraft Museum.
Can't thank you enough!
Val
I glad I could help, being ex RAF myself helps but I was part of the modern one. Have you looked at this site https://internationalbcc.co.uk/
You could search for him in the history section and it may give you more information including who the rest of the crew were.
-
Thank you so much - I will definitely look at the link.
I've been able to research the crew and now have all of their names and details and even a photo of one of them. I also let the Solway Museum know because they hadn't recorded them all and they have or will be amending their information.
One of the 10 crashes apparently that Autumn - I did read that the Lancaster they were flying had had some compass issues - who knows. It's good to write his story for our family history though, (Thomas Henry Loftus b 1924).
Thanks again for your expertise.
Val
-
Always interesting to read service records and see what they did. A mine of information.
can l just say that this is the place to start with any RAF research, the best site on the net.
That LEA notation, not sure its an E because there is no downward stroke on the left side and its a bit obscured by the line on the document, just a thought. The guys and gals on here are usually great with abbreviations so its unusual to see one not deciphered but sure you will get there.
Great work Crumblie!!
Check out "21 Brave Airmen" which has my Uncles story.
best regards and good luck.
Steve.
-
Newark Air Museum is on part of the site that as RAF Winthorpe. There was a Lancaster there when I went last but that was some time ago.
-
Thank you Steve.
Medpat if you do happen to go to Newark Museum again apparently the propeller from the Lancaster is now in a display inside.
Great to remember the story of my Uncle. thanks again for all your help.
-
can l just say that this is the place to start with any RAF research, the best site on the net.
While I yield to no-one in my admiration for, and dedication to, Rootschat and for those who contribute, I would observe that I, in common with many others I suspect, also use two web sites dedicated purely to RAF research and at least one other dedicated purely to WW2 to support our my/our research.
The abbreviation W/Op (Air) is clear enough and the abbreviation W/Op (Air Gunner) or (AG) is to be found. The additional LEA is not to be found (or any variant although I believe it to be as written) in the comprehensive listings of RAF trade groups 1938 to 1944, in RAF glossaries or in lists of abbreviations.
A query asking for help on this has, so far, received no definitive response here and has, so far, defeated experts on a dedicated RAF members site. The abbreviation receives no relevant hits on any sensible RAF related search.
The above by way of a (lack of) progress report. I remain optimistic.
MaxD
-
Result!
Thanks to a member on another site I now learn that LEA refers to an RAF scheme whereby Local Education Authorities would recommend/sponsor boys to become apprentices. In this case they recommended him for training as a Wireless Operator (Air). The source is quoted https://defenceindepth.co/2019/02/20/your-boys-future-apprentice-training-and-social-mobility-in-the-early-royal-air-force/
MaxD
-
Result!
Thanks to a member on another site I now learn that LEA refers to an RAF scheme whereby Local Education Authorities would recommend/sponsor boys to become apprentices. In this case they recommended him for training as a Wireless Operator (Air). The source is quoted https://defenceindepth.co/2019/02/20/your-boys-future-apprentice-training-and-social-mobility-in-the-early-royal-air-force/
MaxD
Very well done. I am an ex-RAF apprentice myself but I entered the service at 16 by walking into the careers office and saying I wanted to join up. I came out having signed on the dotted line and then had to go home and tell my parents what I had done. To say they were not impressed would be very much an understatement. Still I did go on to serve for 24 years so I did manage to convince them that I had made the right decision.
-
Good for you!
MaxD
-
Thank you! Real team work in action and a mystery solved. Brilliant and much appreciated.
Val
-
A short final note after the searching for the W/Op (Air) answer - in the end the RAF didn't train him as a Wireless Op but as a Flight Engineer. Rest his soul.
MaxD
-
My apologies MaxD, l had no intention of offending anyone, though maybe l should have been more specific.
My own experience is such that it was only through this site that l found links to others, RAF COMMANDS to name but one which l am sure you know about. I certainly believe that its a good place to start with Family history of any type. There are so many folk who can help. Just like to give credit where its due.
This site was recommended to me before the RAF specific ones which l then found links to.
Good work on the LEA , knew someone would find it :)
Best regards,
Steve.
-
Steve
If there is a need for apology then it is from me for a clumsily worded post. I wanted simply to acknowledge the great usefulness of more specialist sites and like you, give credit where due.
Good luck with your researches! Best,
Max