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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: willzwazhere on Friday 08 May 20 15:10 BST (UK)
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Hi All
I am going to give this a go with very little information, hoping for a miracle. So apologies, in advance.
I am looking for a man named Albert Lambe, who has most likely passed away. He was my grandfather and my Dad's father. He was married to my grandmother called Elizabeth (Lizzy) Lambe (maiden name Bell) and had two kids, Albert John Lambe (my father) and Alexander Lambe. All of which have passed away. I was told that after the kids were born Albert Lambe left the wife and kids to go to the Army in England and never was heard of again. I am not sure when he would have left, but it would have been between 1944 and 1950. This is what I have been told. I am not sure if this is what happened but this is all I can say (in the meantime). I don't know his date of birth or full name. he might have been English but not 100% sure. We are situated in Cookstown, Northern Ireland.
Apologies, again but if this rings a bell with anyone please respond.
Thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Will
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When he married Elizabeth Bell at Derryloran St Luran Church of Ireland Cookstown on 5 April 1941, he was recorded as Albert William Lamb, a bachelor of full age, a soldier residing at Cookstown Orange Hall (maybe a temporary billet ???).
The bad news is that his father's name and occupation were crossed out (ie. left blank).
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If Albert served in the army then he will have a service record somewhere which could provide you with more details. Unfortunately though I'm not sure if you would be able to request one without his date of birth. Maybe you can ask the Army.
Have a look here https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records (https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records)
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When he married Elizabeth Bell at Derryloran St Luran Church of Ireland Cookstown on 5 April 1941, he was recorded as Albert William Lamb, a bachelor of full age, a soldier residing at Cookstown Orange Hall (maybe a temporary billet ???).
The bad news is that his father's name and occupation were crossed out (ie. left blank).
Thanks Gaffy, hopefully, I am replying to you correctly.
I've been searching for ages and you found so much detail so quickly. Can I ask where you found this detail, please? Shame his father's details were crossed out. Now I am confused as to how he was Lambe and my father became Lambe. I have a few questions, please -
What does a bachelor of full age mean and temporary billet mean?
Again, thank you so much.
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If Albert served in the army then he will have a service record somewhere which could provide you with more details. Unfortunately though I'm not sure if you would be able to request one without his date of birth. Maybe you can ask the Army.
Have a look here https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records (https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records)
Thank you. I may look into this one.
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If the father's details were crossed out it's quite likely he might have been illegitimate.
Bachelor of full age means he was single and aged 21 years or older.
Temporary billet means that he may have been living there whilst in service.
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"of age" meaning generally over the age of 21. Temporary billet would be where he was staying while with his army regiment.
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I don't find an Albert (William) Lamb(e) in the Irish civil registration birth indexes, so he may have been born in England or elsewhere.
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Lots of American soldiers stationed in Cookstown area during WWII. Wonder if birth certificates for sons give a regiment or service number.
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Can I ask where you found this detail, please?
Marriage Albert Lamb & Elizabeth Bell 5th April 1941 Cookstown
See https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk (subscription site)
You can view the original marriage record on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option.
You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to view a record.
You will be able to access the following records:
• birth records over 100 years old
• marriage records over 75 years old
• death records (including World War II death records) over 50 years old
KG
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... Now I am confused as to how he was Lambe and my father became Lambe ...
Just picking up on this point (the other points having been answered), I wouldn't read too much into this, other than to note that both spellings may have been used for this man over the course of time, this 'looseness' over surname spelling that we might regard as unusual today, was far from unusual in former times.
The witnesses to that 1941 marriage were Maggie Bell and Nathan Cahoon, the latter was from a prominent family in the area at that time, but he may simply have been someone that Albert befriended.
Just to note, for no other reason than a match on name, that an Albert William Lambe attested for service in the Royal Regiment of Artillery in 1940 (Reg. no 1597633) - I have no other detail on this and it may simply be an unrelated co-incidence.
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Just to note, for no other reason than a match on name, that an Albert William Lambe attested for service in the Royal Regiment of Artillery in 1940 (Reg. no 1597633) - I have no other detail on this and it may simply be an unrelated co-incidence.
This man was discharged under Kings Regulations Para 390 XVI (ceasing to fulfil Army physical requirements) 5 Jan 1942. Surname is Lamb on the register.
Making some assumptions about him being early 20’s when he enlisted/married, and the lack of a father on the marriage certificate, there is this apparently illegitimate birth registered in 19198:
LAMB, ALBERT WILLIAM (no mmn) GRO Reference: 1918 D Quarter in WORCESTER Volume 6C Page 164
An Albert William Lamb DoB 2 Nov 1918 died in 1985 in Worcester:
LAMB, ALBERT WILLIAM GRO Reference: DOR Q4/1985 in WORCESTER (5271B) Volume 29 Page 881
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The Albert William born 2 November 1918 is at home with his parents William & Edith in Worcester in the 1939 Register.
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The Albert William born 2 November 1918 is at home with his parents William & Edith in Worcester in the 1939 Register.
I don't think William & Edith are his parents. William is born 1876 and is a widower. Edith is born 1898 and is single so may be Albert's mother, and William's daughter.
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You're right ... I wasn't paying close enough attention.
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1901 at 22, Park Butts, Kidderminster
William Lamb 25 Ag Lab born Ombersley, Worcs
Annie wife 29
William son 4
Edith daur 3
Florence daur 6 months
In 1911 Edith is Edith Mary and is with the family at Astley Stourport, Astley, Worcs. Annie is Annie Miria (sic). Additional children are Ellen 6, Elsie 3 and Lizzie 3m
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I am in awe of all this. I just can't believe this. Thank you so much, guys, for finding all of this. I wish I did this sooner and would have been able to tell my father before he passed away last year. So based on reading your findings, correct me if I am wrong, please -
Albert William Lambe was born in 1918
He registered in the Army in 1940 but was discharged in 1942 due to failing physical tests
He got married in 1941 to my grandmother
I was told at some point, he left my grandmother and the kids to go back to the army but based on the above that wouldn't have been the case, as was discharged. Is there a chance he could have re-joined or is it more chance that he actually just went back to England and we don't know what he did after that until his death in 1985? So he may have remarried, had more kids etc?
William lamb was Albert Lamb's grandfather, Annie was his grandmother.
Edith Mary was his mother with an unknown father
William lamb and Annie had more kids, other than Edith, who were William, Florence, Ellen Elsie and Lizzie
Annie may have died between 1911 and 1939
I believe this is everything I have picked up from it.
Now I did find the following which could be a completely different family as the date of births don't match and would mean Edith was William's Wife. Probably a different family as it doesn't match with above.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207096859/edith-mary-lamb
Thanks again, guys. Let me know if I have got everything correct so far, please.
Will
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It's a working theory, not a certainty.
The birth certificates of his children in Ireland may provide more information.
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In the 1939 census, it states that there is another girl called Betty M Lamb but is scored out to be actually Betty M Powell. Could this have been another child of Edith's or was it a mistake and was a random girl living them?
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The 1939 was a General Register taken on 29 September 1939 as an aid to produce identity cards and, once rationing was introduced in January 1940, to issue ration books.
Betty M Lamb married a Powell (in blue capitals). Her birth date of 19th April 1930 corresponds to this in https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl ........
Lamb Betsy M MMN Lamb Worcester 6c 162
So she was illegitimate.
KG
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Thank you. So may have been another child of Edith's.
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From https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriage Oct-Dec 1948
Betty M Lamb to Alan Powell
W.Bromwich 9b 1977
KG
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Thank you all.
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https://www.funeraltimes.com/albert-johnlambe919045714