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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: friesland on Tuesday 28 April 20 17:30 BST (UK)

Title: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: friesland on Tuesday 28 April 20 17:30 BST (UK)
Hello again all, hope everyone is keeping well.
I have moved on a bit with Agnes Bridget Hickey since I last came online. I would now appreciate some further guidance. In the 1891 census I find my grandmother, named Bridget Hickey, in the Convent of the Faithful Virgin Boarding School and Orphanage, Croydon and I find her mother, my great grandmother Ellen Hickey in the St George's Workhouse, St Saviours Union Workhouse, Mint Street, Southwark. Ellen's husband, John Hickey, had died.  I want to try to find out more about these two institutions especially any details of when they were admitted and discharged, which they were by 1901. I have found quite a bit of general background on the workhouse.org site but nothing very specific. Can anyone offer any advice? Thnk you
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 28 April 20 21:50 BST (UK)
Was Ellen born 1847?

Admission 16 Oct 1891
occupation launderess
religion RC
by whose order admitted it looks like "Lyle" but I don't know what that means

Admissions 16 Jul 1891 and 29 Jan 1891 same info as above
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: friesland on Wednesday 29 April 20 00:05 BST (UK)
Thanks for your response
I have not got an exact date for Ellen's birth yet but according to various census's it was 1844 and according to her first wedding certificate it was 1843 and her second wedding shows 1842 so it is about that point.
She was certainly a launderess but looking at the census for the workhouse a large number were shown as launderess's and she was RC at that time.
So the entry you found may be her but then she appears in the 1891 census which was taken on 5th April 1891 so she was an inmate before October.

Thank you anyway
Peter
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 29 April 20 06:49 BST (UK)
For information on the workhouse:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Southwark/
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: solidrock on Wednesday 29 April 20 07:01 BST (UK)
https://londongardenstrust.org/inventory/gardens-online-record.php?ID=CRO089
https://taking-stock.org.uk/building/norwood-the-faithful-virgin/
https://www.norwoodsociety.co.uk/articles/90-a-short-history-of-the-convent-and-church-of-virgo-fidelis.html
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 29 April 20 11:01 BST (UK)
What was Ellen's maiden name please and who was her father from the marriage certificates?
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: janan on Wednesday 29 April 20 11:06 BST (UK)
Ellen Hickey Laundress born 1845-48  appears to have been in and out of St Georges Workhouse frequently over a number of years from April 1887. Would that  fit with death of her husband?

Jan
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 29 April 20 11:15 BST (UK)
Looks like John Hickey died 1890?

Think this is her in 1871?

Ellen Hogan 27
Ellen 5
William 3
Elvia 2

The 1881 has a mixture of Hickey/Hogan children

John Hickey 42
Ellen Hickey 37
Bridget Hickey 3
Mary Hickey 7 months
Ellen Hogan 15
William Hogan 14
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 29 April 20 11:40 BST (UK)
Kind of worked out the marriages (I think) to help with pinning down a birth for her. 

Jun 1866 Holborn
Ellen McCarthy
Thomas Hogan

Sep 1877 St Saviour
Ellen Hogan
Thomas Hickey
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: janan on Wednesday 29 April 20 12:22 BST (UK)
Ellen Hickey Occupation Washing Religion RC born 1845 and Bridget Hickey Born 1878 were both admitted to St Georges 30 July 1887

Bridget was discharged 3 Nov 1887 to Mother 9 Camberwell New Road
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 29 April 20 13:00 BST (UK)
Bridget was discharged 3 Nov 1887 to Mother 9 Camberwell New Road

In between Bridget had been sent to the school at Hanwell. Admitted there 25 August 1887. Discharged 3 Nov.
Southwark Guardians, Hanwell Schools Register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39L-DQMV-W?cat=289304
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: janan on Wednesday 29 April 20 14:12 BST (UK)
Bridget was discharged 3 Nov 1887 to Mother 9 Camberwell New Road

In between Bridget had been sent to the school at Hanwell. Admitted there 25 August 1887. Discharged 3 Nov.
Southwark Guardians, Hanwell Schools Register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39L-DQMV-W?cat=289304
There is also a re-admission to St Georges on 3rd Nov from Hanwell School prior to the discharge on same day as already posted.

There is a discharge for Bridget to Hanwell on 25th Aug.

 I can't find discharge for Ellen after her 30th July admission.
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 29 April 20 14:25 BST (UK)
I see you have found the admission of Bridgt Hickey to Hanwell on 25th Aug :)
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 29 April 20 14:29 BST (UK)
Ellen was discharged to Champion Hill Infirmary, 9 Sep 1887
Likely readmission to workhouse, 3 Oct 1887. Order of Dr. Gross.
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: janan on Wednesday 29 April 20 14:32 BST (UK)
Ellen was discharged to Champion Hill Infirmary, 9 Sep 1887
Likely readmission to workhouse, 3 Oct 1887. Order of Dr. Gross.

And then discharged form workhouse  at own request on Oct 8th 1887 (no address given)
Between us we have a complete picture of the 1887 comings and goings :)
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 29 April 20 14:36 BST (UK)
Yes, well done.
We can also use the religious creed registers to help out. Sadly they are not alphabetical.
Are on both ancestry and familysearch
Here are Ellen and Bridget's 30 July 1887 admissions with their discharge details (two images)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1Y-VSHZ-F?i=287&cat=289304
Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: friesland on Wednesday 29 April 20 15:19 BST (UK)
Well, that's a lot of information and questions.

Ellen's maiden name was Carroll and her father was Thomas Carroll and her mother Ellen but she was previously married to Thomas Hogan in November 1865 in West Bromwich, Thomas died.

She married John Hickey on 20 August 1877 in Southwark.

Yes that is them in the 1871 and 1881 census, unfortunately Eliza only made it to 7 years old.

In and out of the workhouse from 1887 is possible, I haven't found a date for John Hickey's death yet, Hickey is not an uncommon name. I'm still looking.

I think that's all the questions answered, now I'll follow up on suggsetions.

It was interesting that Bridget was also in the workhouse, I assume when she was too old for the school.

And just when I was about to respond along come another 6 replies which gives me some more great leads.  Thank you all so much

Regards

Peter



Title: Re: Workhouse and orphanage
Post by: janan on Wednesday 29 April 20 15:58 BST (UK)
There is a lot about the Hanwell School here
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/CentralLondonSD/

Jan