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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: delen on Monday 27 April 20 11:21 BST (UK)

Title: William Petch
Post by: delen on Monday 27 April 20 11:21 BST (UK)
Looking for any info. on WILLIAM PETCH born Risby, Suffolk, England 1891 and emigrated to New Zealand on 10th December 1909 on "ARAWA" landing Werllington New Zealand.

Thank you

Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 April 20 11:52 BST (UK)
Looking for any info. on WILLIAM PETCH born Risby, Suffolk, England 1891
and emigrated to New Zealand on 10th December 1909 on "ARAWA" landing Werllington New Zealand.


What sort of information are you looking for?

There's this 1901 census for a William Petch born Risby, Suffolk

Flempton Road, Risby, Thingoe, Suffolk
William Petch Head Married Gamekeeper   Hengrave, Suffolk
May Petch Wife   Bury St Edmunds
Eva Petch    Daug. Flempton, Suffolk
William Petch Son   Risby, Suffolk
Ernest Petch Son   Risby, Suffolk
Evelyn M Petch Dau Risby, Suffolk
Albert E Petch Son Risby, Suffolk
Donald Petch Son Risby, Suffolk
RG13 Piece 1752 Folio   110 Page   5

Edit - to add GRO indexes show above children mmn GOOCH

William James PETCH mmn   GOOCH 
1890  S Quarter in THINGOE  Volume 04A  Page 705

and FreeBMD has this marriage entry

Sep 1888   
GOOCH    Mary        Bury St E    4a   872    
PETCH    William James    Bury St E    4a   872

Edit to add

William James PETCH
Baptism 07 Sep 1890 St Giles Risby
Father William James, gamekeeper mother Mary
Notes   Born 17 Jun

Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 April 20 12:08 BST (UK)
Looking for any info. on WILLIAM PETCH born Risby, Suffolk, England 1891 and emigrated to New Zealand on 10th December 1909 on "ARAWA" landing Werllington New Zealand.

Was he travelling with anybody else?
Do you know his parents names?
Did he marry?

The William James Petch born 1891 Risby appears with his parents William & Mary in 1911/1939 and died UK 1981

William James PETCH born 17 6 1890
Death 1981 Ipswich Suffolk Volume   10 Page   2978
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 27 April 20 12:16 BST (UK)
Did he stay in NZ?
If so Only these two deaths, and the 1966 is the one that looks most likely, so b about 1884


Registration Number   Family Name   Given Name(s)   Date of Birth/
Age at Death   
1975/35491   Petch   Reginald William   22 May 1899   
1966/47552   Petch   William   82Y
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 April 20 12:25 BST (UK)
Did he stay in NZ?
If so Only these two deaths, and the 1966 is the one that looks most likely, so b about 1884


Registration Number   Family Name   Given Name(s)   Date of Birth/
Age at Death   
1975/35491   Petch   Reginald William   22 May 1899   
1966/47552   Petch   William   82Y

If the 1966 death entry is correct there's this UK 1883 birth entry on GRO indexes
Risby is in the registration district of Thingoe

William PETCH mmn COCKSEDGE 
1883  J Quarter in THINGOE  Volume 04A  Page 631
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Fresh Fields on Monday 27 April 20 12:34 BST (UK)
Hello and welcome to the NZ board.

It's getting late here, and the post above beats me to the draw. So just from a quick look.

On Archway, our NZ National archives site you can see the army records for the 82 year old William listed above. [follow the prompts] NOK is given as Elizabeth Lee PETCH, Wm was an Orchadist at time of enlistment in 1917 and his place of birth is listed as Garton England. Children listed as David and Edith Helen.

Archway only had about 11 hits with a John William PETCH 1911 and a Regional William PETCH 1922 having files as well as several for just William PETCH.

Have a look at our Historic NZ  B D & M web site.

The name of William PETCH first appears in our newspapers [NZ PAPERSPAST] in the 1890's at Taranaki, so there is a chance relatives were here before your William.

Happy hunting while I sleep.

Alan.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 27 April 20 12:36 BST (UK)
Here is the archway link to war record

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE19512309

Gives a d.o.b. of 21 May 1885
And place of birth Garton, England.

Added. & parents both born Yorkshire
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 April 20 12:37 BST (UK)
There are also these birth entries with same mmn

Charles PETCH   mmn   COCKSEDGE 
1878  J Quarter in THINGOE  Volume 04A  Page 574

James]Joseph PETCH mmn   COCKSEDGE 
1880  D Quarter in THINGOE  Volume 04A  Page 559

this appears to be Charles & Joseph on the 1891 census - no William  :-\

Street, Ingham, Thingoe, Suffolk, England
Frederick Petch   Head   Agricultural Labourer   Culford, Suffolk
Henrietta Petch   Wife   Suffolk
George F Petch   Son   Agricultural Labourer   Suffolk,
Charles Petch Son Agricultural Labourer   Suffolk
James J Petch Son Nowton, Suffolk
Beatrice Petch   Daug    
Percy Petch Son   
Phoebe L Petch Dau    Ingham, Suffolk
Arthur J Rummer Lodger SingleMale   Agricultural Labourer   Ingham, Suffolk
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Monday 27 April 20 12:46 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk

Thank you for all info. I can confirm that the family you gave me on your first listing is correct. I have checked the parish records. Also in same records his Mother had noted his emigrating and also recalling his childrens names but names were not mentioned. (pity)

I think I must establish if he did stay in N.Z or return to U.K.

Thanks to everyone who posted.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 April 20 13:18 BST (UK)
William Petch born c1891 Risby listed here with his parents William & Mary his occupation Gamekeeper same as his father's, siblings Evelyn Mary, Albert Edward & Donald are also with them

1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-8WF

Edit to add 1891 census

Fir Cover Cottage, Risby, Thingoe, Suffolk

William J   Petch   Head   23 b Hengrave, Suffolk occ Game Keeper
Mary   Petch   Wife  24  Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Eva E   Petch   Dau   2 b Flempton, Suffolk
William J   Petch Son 9 months b  Risby, Suffolk
RG12 Piece 1448 Folio 107 Page   4

Eva Esther Petch
Baptism 07 Jul 1889 Flempton, St Catherine with Hengrave
Father William, gamekeeper Mother Mary
Notes   Born 30 Mar
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: shanreagh on Tuesday 28 April 20 14:16 BST (UK)
There is a marriage of a William Petch in NZ

1917/4955    Isabel Lee   Wilson   William   Petch
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Tuesday 28 April 20 14:28 BST (UK)
Thank you that lead is encouraging I will follow up.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: shanreagh on Tuesday 28 April 20 14:53 BST (UK)
Birth of a son
1917/26417   Petch    David William   Isabel Lee   William

This is very close to a) his marriage and b) to his enlisting in the army  11/10/1917. 

As has been noted before this William Petch came from Garton and was born 21/5/1885.

Daughter
1918/23160   Petch    Edith Helen   Isabel Lee   William 21/9/1918 died 2012 EH Carruthers

From the Army file he was 4ft 11" tall, Light brown hair, brown eyes and fair complexion. He was Anglican.  These physical features may help determine if he is 'yours'. 
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 28 April 20 15:19 BST (UK)
There is a marriage of a William Petch in NZ

1917/4955    Isabel Lee   Wilson   William   Petch

   
Isabel Lee Petch
Probate granted 1933 Napier, Hawke's Bay, New Zealand

The Will of  Isabel Lee PETCH

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pdj/

Late wife of William Petch of Hastings in the Provincial District of Hawkes Bay & Dominion of New Zealand Gardener deceased

She died about 16th July 1937

burial Hastings Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193723821/isobel-lee-petch

No image to view on familysearch to check if this is Isabel's husband

William Petch
Probate granted 1918 Napier, Hawke's Bay, New Zealand
Item Code:   R23236816
Box Number:    1087
Record Number:    4688
Birth of a son
1917/26417   Petch    David William   Isabel Lee   William

He died 2000 buried Hastings Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193723817

Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Tuesday 28 April 20 15:52 BST (UK)
Thank you for all the help you are offering.
The William I am looking for was NOT born in Garton he was born in Risby Suffolk

Thanks
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 28 April 20 16:14 BST (UK)
Thank you for all the help you are offering.
The William I am looking for was NOT born in Garton he was born in Risby Suffolk

You are welcome  :) At least it's another William Petch you can cross off the list
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Tuesday 28 April 20 16:29 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk,
Thank you - so helpful -
where can I look to see if William did actually come  back to U.K.  I found him leaving easily  but cannot find anything on a possible return trip.

Thanks
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 28 April 20 16:42 BST (UK)

where can I look to see if William did actually come  back to U.K.

 I found him leaving easily  but cannot find anything on a possible return trip.


If you have a subscription you could try Anc*y UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 - unfortunately I can't check for you as my subscription has just come to an end
   
Currently seeing if I can find anything on F M P

Is this the record you have for William arriving in NZ?

Wm Petch
Marital status   S
Occupation   Labourer
Departure year   10 12 1909
Departure port   London
Destination port   Wellington
Country   New Zealand
Ship name   Arawa
Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 April 20 20:57 BST (UK)
I looked for UK incoming passengers the other day and couldn’t see him

May I ask how you know the 1909 one is him? You implied earlier it was in a parish register note, but now I am wondering if it is in notes made by an earlier researcher?  It seems a very odd thing to be recorded in the PR by his mother

Reply #8

Quote
I have checked the parish records. Also in same records his Mother had noted his emigrating


Arriving in NZ 25 Jan 1910 and then back in England in time for the 1911 census seems a very fast turn around for a labourer. 
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 28 April 20 23:45 BST (UK)
Helo again.

Re William James Petch and May PETCH nee GOOCH.

Has this Bretta May PETCH been ruled out?
1979/46952   PETCH  Bretta May  b. 17 December 1895, d. 27 November 1979 Havelock North [Napier]

Wife of William James PETCH.

Chn. Olive Edith STEADMAN and Arthur Prince PETCH.

Her will can be viewed through her ARCHWAY, Archives NZ file.

Alan.

PS PERCH has been suggested as a transcription error on some records. As perch is often mentioned in land records it can generate a large number of false hits when searching. So not an easy task.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: shanreagh on Wednesday 29 April 20 00:43 BST (UK)
Thank you for all the help you are offering.
The William I am looking for was NOT born in Garton he was born in Risby Suffolk

Thanks

As a way of trying to work on this without going round in circles
have you checked to see if you can find the Garton William Petch who has been in NZ & Army here etc and followed him back and forward?

Have you checked and double checked the sources you have for a William Petch birth in Risby? 

I would not rely just on a census form. 

Sometimes these census forms were completed for those who could not read or write who 'marked' them as correct. I have seen some weird and wonderful birthplaces assigned to people in census records mainly from assumptions made about big families.  Enumerator may say
'Oh so Mary, John, James, Hannah, Claire born in Londonderry Northern Ireland?' Tick? Only later you realise that no,  Claire was actually born in Glasgow after her parents moved.  Or children born in Ireland who moved to US and having an American accent by the times of later censuses are put down as US born. 
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: shanreagh on Wednesday 29 April 20 00:46 BST (UK)
Helo again.

Re William James Petch and May PETCH nee GOOCH.

Has this Bretta May PETCH been ruled out?
1979/46952   PETCH  Bretta May  b. 17 December 1895, d. 27 November 1979 Havelock North [Napier]

Wife of William James PETCH.

Chn. Olive Edith STEADMAN and Arthur Prince PETCH.

Her will can be viewed through her ARCHWAY, Archives NZ file.

Alan.

PS PERCH has been suggested as a transcription error on some records. As perch is often mentioned in land records it can generate a large number of false hits when searching. So not an easy task.

Interesting as the Willam Petch we have found also lived in Havelock North and one of his children was named Edith. 
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 29 April 20 02:14 BST (UK)
Hello,

"I have checked the parish records. Also in same records his Mother had noted his emigrating"


Can you please transcribe* exactly what you found in the Parish records relating to your William Petch. [From beginning to end]

*Or attach a copy.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 April 20 02:24 BST (UK)
I think The OP is tracing down from the William and May née Gooch couple.
Bretta May in NZ is way too young (b 1895) to be the mother of William b 1891
And she is not his wife as she married Harry Petch


Bretta May Leeves
Gender:   Female
Marriage Year:   1919
Marriage Place:   New Zealand
Spouse:   Harry Petch
Relation:   Bride (Wife)

I’ve checked in a couple of  the electoral rolls, and he is Harry there too.


I think as both I and Minniehaha have posted we need to know the details of the actual reason William of Risby 1891 is thought to have come to NZ. Especially in view of the fact he was in England in 1911 and died there.  As posted right back at reply #2.


Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: shanreagh on Wednesday 29 April 20 05:29 BST (UK)
Yes I see that but I think OP may need to carefully interrogate the info they have that leads them to think that the Risby Petch family is the one they should be following.  Then from there to the entry as coming to NZ in 1909. 

I think the Petch that came to NZ in 1909 is the one who went overseas in 1917, who married Isobel and died here in NZ in 1966.  I think this Petch family may have had contacts/family in the Petch family that was already in Havelock North that Fresh Fields has found.....the 1909 William Petch had a daughter and one of her names was Edith as was one of the Petch family that Alan found. 
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: Fresh Fields on Wednesday 29 April 20 05:49 BST (UK)
Hello again.

As stated many times before my hobby is looking into the life and times of our pioneering rural stock. I don't have specialist genealogy research resources, at my finger tips, so leave that to the NZ boards skilled members.

However I did reach out to Lizzy by PM, who replied she is doing further research about her village using the written resources available to her.

In part my reply included the following observation, as to why were were asking for more known details.

QUOTE.

NZ Census records, have not been saved, so we do not have that resource other than a very few provincial ones in our founding years.

Our NZ National Archives records are what most posters have been referring to, in their contributions to your post, but we have lacked other supporting data to help refine the search.

I would strongly recommend you take a scroll through those records, because there may be other names there that ring a bell. I have found most of our emigrants have arrived with knowledge of earlier arrivals [family or local villagers] who have hosted them upon arrival. Otherwise they were assisted migrants of some description, and records can be found about their arrivals.


By possible association was why I questioned re Wm James PETCH & May PETCH.

Alan.
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Wednesday 29 April 20 12:29 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk

Yes that is the records I have.

Thank you
Title: Re: William Petch
Post by: delen on Wednesday 29 April 20 12:33 BST (UK)
This search is now becoming far too complex, so I have reluctantly decided to abandon it

Please accept my thanks to all of you who have offered information.