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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Pete E on Friday 24 April 20 13:04 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to solve a puzzle, the answer to which, has been alluding me for some time; where was the birthplace of my 2nd great grandfather Henry Waters, 1846-1911? The problem being, different places of birth are given at each census for him. I am pretty sure I have the correct person and family in each census, with only the 1851 showing an anomaly in that the family name was recorded as Watters. The information I have is:
1851, Residence Old Colliery, Scremerston. Birthplace N Durham, Norham
1861, Residence Coal Mine, Togston. Birthplace Berwickshire
1871, Residence Elliot Building, Bedlington. Birthplace Scremerston, Northumberland.
1881, Residence Havelock Sq New Backworth. Birthplace Berwick, Northumberland.
1891, Residence Middle Row Isabella. Birthplace Morpeth, Northumberland.
1901, Residence Middle Row, Isabella. Birthplace Little Mill, Northumberland.
I think I have his parents over the border in Clappers, Berwickshire in the 1841 census and their places of birth are always given as Scotland in subsequent censuses. I can't find a likely civil registration birth entry for Northumberland in the time period expected and I haven't found a church record to suit. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas, all posts will be gratefully received.
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Were the parents James Waters and Elizabeth/Betty née Paterson?
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At the moment I believe so, that is until I prove otherwise. ;D
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There's an Andrew Waters Dec 1845 Berwick Upon Tweed with mothers maiden name Patterson
Could he be Henry or was this another child born before that? There is no Andrew on the 1851 census.
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1851, Residence Old Colliery, Scremerston. Birthplace N Durham, Norham
Had he been born later his birthplace would have been Norham, Northumberland.
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Their marriage in Scotland?: WATERS JAMES to BETTY PATERSON/FR519 (FR519) 23/10/1838 738/30 206 Edrom
Scotland 1841: 752/ 1/ 3 Mordington Berwick
James 25
Elizabeth 25
John 0
’There's an Andrew Waters Dec 1845 Berwick Upon Tweed with mothers maiden name Patterson’
WATERS, ANDREW mmn PATTERSON
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in BERWICK UPON TWEED UNION Volume 25 Page 26
WATERS, JAMES mmn PATTERSON
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in BERWICK UPON TWEED UNION Volume 25 Page 26
WAITERS, GEORGE mmn PATTERSON
GRO Reference: 1851 S Quarter in BERWICK UPON TWEED UNION Volume 25 Page 24
WATERS, ROBERT mmn PATTERSON
GRO Reference: 1856 J Quarter in BERWICK UPON TWEED UNION Volume 10B
Have you traced them pre 1841? I wonder if they followed the Scots naming pattern for children. I can’t see the births for John and William on SP.
1861 has Henry born in SCOTLAND: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VT-WY6
Interesting to see that they lived in BERWICK in two countries. :)
In Edrom 1841, there are only these Waters? Could they be the mother/grandmother and siblings of James Snr?
738/ 2/ 7 Edrom Berwick
Janet 70
Henry 20
738/ 4/ 5 Edrom Berwick
William 15
Jamjar
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Hi everyone, thanks for your help. Well this is a curve ball for me, the possibility Henry might be an Andrew!
Henry went on to have two sons himself, Henry 1873-? and Andrew 1875-1944; interesting.
Henry's siblings are, I believe, John 1841-?, William 1843-?, James 1849-?, George 1852-1862(?), Robert 1856-1921. So a real possibility Jamjar that the names you have identified are Henry and his brothers. Can you provide a link to them please, as I'm having trouble finding them?
Are they church records as I thought civil registration began in 1855 in Scotland?
Does Berwick Upon Tweed Union, mean they were registered at the workhouse?
James, George and Robert's places of birth in later censuses all correspond with a Berwick, or a close to Berwick place of birth.
If they are correct family, why is Henry's birthplace being changed all the time?
At the moment I'm surmising that James Waters and Betty Paterson living at Clappers, Mordington with their son John 2m in 1841 are the parents.
I have possible parents for James as John Waters and Janet Rodger. This could correspond with the Janet Waters 70 and Henry 20 you have also found Jamjar.
I'm feeling movement but confusion :D cheers
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That is interesting he had a son called Andrew.
The General Registry Office (GRO) site has birth registrations for England. You can search on there by surname/birth year and mothers maiden name/district of birth if you know it.
It's free to search if you register and certificates can be ordered, paper copies or email copies.
That's how Andrew popped up by searching for surname Waters with mothers name Patterson.
As there is no Andrew in 1851 there is a good chance he actually was Henry.
The other possibility is that Andrew passed away before 1851 and Henry's birth registration is still elusive but I can't see a death for him.
Birth places on census are only as accurate as the person giving the information and if places were close together or the family moved around a bit that would account for the variations.
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1861 census for clarity
James Waters 47
Elizabeth 57
John 20
William 18
Henry 15
James 12
George 9
Robert 5
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James snr baptism 28 Sep 1812 Coldstream Berwick has father John Waters mother Janet Roger
which could be the Janet 70 Jamjar found.
John Waters/Janet Roger marriage 16 Nov 1800 Ekford Roxburgh to check out
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Many thanks for the additional information Millipede, most kind. I have some direction to take and I will have to make an executive decision on Henry's place of birth and whether or not he is Andrew! Thanks also for the pm, I now see where Jamjar and yourself got the info. I had no idea mothers maiden names were shown on indexes that early; every day is a learning day. Thanks all :)
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this might help
Scremerston in county durham became Scremerston in Northumberland Scremerston is classed as being part of the town of Berwick so instead of saying you were born Scremerston you now say you were born Berwick so part of your census confusion is solved there are wide varieties in Northumberland accents so if you live at Togston and say to the census people (don,t forget the census was sometimes filled in by one person for the whole community as not everyone could read and write) that you came from Berwick this can be picked up as Berwickshire Let me know if you need any information about Isabella Colliery as I knew the area very well There is a henry Watters birth registered 1845 in the Glendale area which is the next area to Norham parish this might be your Henry
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The GRO index has the Glendale birth 1845 as Henry WALTERS mmn MILLER
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Thanks for your help bellhay and fiddlersclass.