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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 11:11 BST (UK)

Title: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 11:11 BST (UK)
Could anyone please tell me if there was a " Chance Inn" in Dumfries. I have a photograph of my ancestors outside this Inn. Sorry, there is no date.

Thank you
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 11:18 BST (UK)
Are you sure it's in Dumfries?

 Scotlands Places list one in Fife and Kinross and Forfarshire.

https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 11:38 BST (UK)
No, I am not sure whether it was in Dumfries. My ancestors were from Dumfries so, I thought perhaps it may have been there. I know at some stage they had a pub at Troqueer , Dumfries  - no other details.

Thank you
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 12:22 BST (UK)
Are you sure it's in Dumfries?
Scotlands Places list one in Fife and Kinross and Forfarshire.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/
I don't know the Fife one but there are two in Angus.

One in the parish of Inverkeilor. The original Chance Inn was at what is now Cotton of Inchock
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5419178
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.62623&lon=-2.52897&layers=5&b=1 but the inn in the village of Inverkeilor was also called the Chance Inn.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3997268  It survived into the 21st century but is now permanently closed, and the building has been redeveloped as housing.

The other is in the parish of Tannadice. It now seems to be known as Denside Cottage
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.73756&lon=-2.88062&layers=5&b=1
and https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO4660
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 12:40 BST (UK)
 Thank you for the info.  I am beginning to think they may just have visited the Chance Inn at sometime.
I am almost sure they had the Troqueer Arms/Inn, in Dumfries. No idea of the dates though. His name was Reginald Tupper Carnegie, his wife was Margaret (nee Mofatt) ( . Something I will have to look into.

Thank you Gadget & Forfarian

cupcake
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 13:37 BST (UK)
I see that Reginald Tupper Carnegie was born in Stornoway in 1917, married in Troqueer in 1939 and died in Dumfries in 1972.

The 1940 valuation roll lists seven Chance Inns.  One each in Crail and Ceres (Fife), Belhelvie (Aberdeenshire), Kinross, Errol (Perthshire) and Inverkeilor and Tannadice (Angus).

In 1940 Reginald T Carnegie was proprietor and occupier of a bungalow, Brae Rannoch, in Terregles Road, Troqueer. He was charged with wasting fuel in 1944 and his address then was given as Braerannoch, Terregles Road, Dumfries.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 13:40 BST (UK)
I think we've been looking at the same info.

His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 13:43 BST (UK)
Margaret Moffat  was 21 at marraige. She was a typist and living at 4 Maryville or Maryvilla Terrace, Dumfries.  Her parents were William Main Moffat, plumber and Christina MS Smith
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:03 BST (UK)
Is there any chance of you scanning the photo and putting it up.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:33 BST (UK)
I see that Reginald Tupper Carnegie was born in Stornoway in 1917, married in Troqueer in 1939 and died in Dumfries in 1972.

The 1940 valuation roll lists seven Chance Inns.  One each in Crail and Ceres (Fife), Belhelvie (Aberdeenshire), Kinross, Errol (Perthshire) and Inverkeilor and Tannadice (Angus).

In 1940 Reginald T Carnegie was proprietor and occupier of a bungalow, Brae Rannoch, in Terregles Road, Troqueer. He was charged with wasting fuel in 1944 and his address then was given as Braerannoch, Terregles Road, Dumfries.

Thank you for this information I didn't know where  Reginald came from. I did however know about the bungalow.
Thank you
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:37 BST (UK)
I think we've been looking at the same info.

His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.

More information I didn't have Thank you.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:42 BST (UK)
Margaret Moffat  was 21 at marraige. She was a typist and living at 4 Maryville or Maryvilla Terrace, Dumfries.  Her parents were William Main Moffat, plumber and Christina MS Smith

The Moffats are my ancestors. 
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:45 BST (UK)
Is there any chance of you scanning the photo and putting it up.

Photo of Chance Inn perhaps around the 1950's.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:49 BST (UK)
Could posibly be the Inverkeilor one

https://tour-scotland-photographs.blogspot.com/2018/01/old-travel-blog-photograph-chance-inn.html

add - before it was painted!
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:54 BST (UK)
Could posibly be the Inverkeilor one

https://tour-scotland-photographs.blogspot.com/2018/01/old-travel-blog-photograph-chance-inn.html

add - before it was painted!

I would agree with you.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 14:57 BST (UK)
 I am only going by the information given to me sometime ago that they were occupiers of a pub/Inn in Dumfries. I think this information could be wrong.

Thank you for answering my messages.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 15:12 BST (UK)
Just because I'm nosey, what type of merchant was he?
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 15:32 BST (UK)
I think we've been looking at the same info.

His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.

Sorry I didn't know his father was a merchant.

cupcake
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 16:58 BST (UK)
Gadget

Have sent you a PM

cupcake
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 17:22 BST (UK)
That is definitely the Chance Inn in Inverkeilor. I always remember it as whitewashed - must have passed it hundreds of times on the way to and from our family cottage a few miles away. And of course I've been in for a drink or a pub meal. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 17:24 BST (UK)
Just had some information to say they did own the Troqueer Arms, Dumfries also, Margaret bought the the Chance Inn in Inverkeillor, after selling the Troqueer Arms.

cupcake :)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 17:25 BST (UK)
That is definitely the Chance Inn in Inverkeilor. I always remember it as whitewashed - must have passed it hundreds of times. And of course been in for a drink or a pub meal. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.

Thank you for your help. Very much appreciated.I have to agree with you, the sandstone is nicer.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 17:33 BST (UK)
Angus County Licensing Court on Tuesday granted the following applications—New tenants or occupiers — Mrs Mein or Carnegie, Troqueer Arms, Dumfries, for the Chance Inn, Inverkeilor .... [Arbroath Guide, 3 November 1956; Arbroath Herald etc, 2 November 1956; Montrose Standard, 1 November 1956]
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 17:36 BST (UK)
. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.

I think the photo in my link is quite old, going by the clothing of the people, so it must have been painted  and then stripped back again!
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 18:46 BST (UK)
. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
I think the photo in my link is quite old, going by the clothing of the people, so it must have been painted  and then stripped back again!
Yes, it must have been. 
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 19:27 BST (UK)
Angus County Licensing Court on Tuesday granted the following applications—New tenants or occupiers — Mrs Mein or Carnegie, Troqueer Arms, Dumfries, for the Chance Inn, Inverkeilor .... [Arbroath Guide, 3 November 1956; Arbroath Herald etc, 2 November 1956; Montrose Standard, 1 November 1956]

That gives me dates to refer to. Thanks.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 21:40 BST (UK)
 I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant  business was.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 21:47 BST (UK)
I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant  business was.

Wholesale wine and  spirit merchant on his death cert. June 1950, aged 79, Dumfries.

Will send
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 21:55 BST (UK)
I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant  business was.

Wholesale wine and  spirit merchant on his death cert. June 1950, aged 79, Dumfries.

Will send

Thank you
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 April 20 22:10 BST (UK)
1901 census lists in Grangemouth Frank P Carnegie, widower, 28, hotel keeper, born Dundee; son Frank P Carnegie, 2, born Edinburgh, and Ann Y Hamilton, mother-in-law, 74, born West Calder.

It's quite common for a hotel or innkeeper to be described as a wine and spirit merchant in a different document.

There's a marriage of Frank P Carnegie to Annie Y Hamilton in Edinburgh in 1896. Annie Young Carnegie, other surname Dickie, 29, died in Grangemouth in 1899.

Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 22:14 BST (UK)
1901 census lists in Grangemouth Frank P Carnegie, widower, 28, hotel keeper, born Dundee; son Frank P Carnegie, 2, born Edinburgh, and Ann Y Hamilton, mother-in-law, 74, born West Calder.

It's quite common for a hotel or innkeeper to be described as a wine and spirit merchant in a different document.

There's a marriage of Frank P Carnegie to Annie Y Hamilton in Edinburgh in 1896. Annie Young Carnegie, other surname Dickie, 29, died in Grangemouth in 1899.

 Thank you.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 April 20 22:21 BST (UK)
He married Annie Y Hamilton in 1896 (Mary on death cert!) and Josephine Watson in 1901 (as son's marriage cert Reply #6)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 22 April 20 10:26 BST (UK)
Error
 
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 22 April 20 12:25 BST (UK)
This Covid lockdown is answerable for much!  Notice La Bruce is now an expert on Leonardo da Vinci !
That went straight over my head!
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 22 April 20 12:40 BST (UK)
error

Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 15:25 BST (UK)
 Can anyone tell where Abbey House, Dumfries was back in the late 1930's and, is it still there today.

cupcake
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 16:12 BST (UK)
1931 and 1935 Valuation list has it in New Abbey Road. Proprietor is Josephine Carnegie. Occupier is Frank P

 :)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 16:17 BST (UK)
It's on the Troqueer side (Maxwelltown)  of the Nith - A710
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 16:21 BST (UK)
https://maps.nls.uk/view/75503261#zoom=5&lat=4570&lon=7567&layers=BT

Will try to find a larger scale map

(add- the1931  25 ins to mile doesn't show it as a named house)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 16:53 BST (UK)
1931 and 1935 Valuation list has it in New Abbey Road. Proprietor is Josephine Carnegie. Occupier is Frank P

 :)

Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 16:57 BST (UK)
https://maps.nls.uk/view/75503261#zoom=5&lat=4570&lon=7567&layers=BT

Will try to find a larger scale map

(add- the1931  25 ins to mile doesn't show it as a named house)

I recognise many of the names on the map. Goldilea - there is a Nursing home called this in that area, and I recall the viaduct.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:01 BST (UK)
Abbey House is not showing as a separate address on current postcode finder.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:03 BST (UK)
It's on the Troqueer side (Maxwelltown)  of the Nith - A710

I do get a tad mixed up with the bounderies back then. I know Dumfries well or, I thought I did.

Many thanks   :D
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:05 BST (UK)
Abbey House is not showing as a separate address on current postcode finder.

Thank you for taking the time to look for me.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:24 BST (UK)
You're welcome. I'm fond of Dumfries. Some of my ancestors were born there and more were buried there  :)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:40 BST (UK)
You're welcome. I'm fond of Dumfries. Some of my ancestors were born there and more were buried there  :)

I don't know when you were there last but, it has changed so much. Some buildings are looking so tired. Imagine you will have some fond memories of Dumfries.
Do miss the Ewart library being closed at the moment. :(
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:45 BST (UK)
I was there two or three years ago. It's not too far from here - cross country and up to the A74/75. It's usually sunny when we go there  :D
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 22 April 20 17:53 BST (UK)
We are certainly having glorious weather just now, it hasn't rained for about 6 weeks - just before the lockdown. Sadly, I believe it has to break next week which won't be much fun.

Stay safe :)
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:16 GMT (UK)
I wish I'd come across this post months ago, as I could have told you straight away that my granny (Margaret Mein Carnegie nee Moffat) left Dumfries after she separated from my grandfather, Reginald Tupper Carnegie, in 1955, and moved to Inverkeilor to run The Chance Inn.  I currently live just 7 miles from Inverkeilor and The Chance Inn has sadly been closed for several years now after the smoking ban meant the there were very few customers still going there.  I have that photograph myself and it is definitely of my granny and her parents, William and Christina Moffat, so it would have been taken between 1955 an 1961 but I don't know exactly what year.  Granny left Inverkeilor in 1961 and moved to Balham in south west London to be the landlady of bedsits in the large house that she bought and lived in.  She died of throat cancer in London on 7th December 1969.    My grandfather was an alcoholic and that's what led to the breakdown of their marriage in Dumfries.  When my granny died he inherited her house in London (they never divorced as he refused to agree to a divorce) and he and lived there for a while with his second wife, Christine, before selling the house to his eldest son Alexander, ie my father.  My grandfather ended up living in a caravan in the grounds of Caerlaverock Castle near Dumfries and he died of cirhossis of the liver on 7th December 1972.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:27 GMT (UK)
Margaret Mein Moffat outside her parents' house at 101 Brooms Road, Dumfries in 1938, with her dog Rex.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:27 GMT (UK)
The same house a few years ago.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:29 GMT (UK)
Abbey House, Dumfries.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:31 GMT (UK)
and from the other side.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:32 GMT (UK)
This is the house called Braerannoch.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:34 GMT (UK)
My grandparents' family home, Rosefield House in Troqueer Road, Dumfries, which they converted into The Troqueer Arms in 1952.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:36 GMT (UK)
It's still trading as far as I know.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:56 GMT (UK)
Margaret and Reginald's eldest son, Alexander Perrie Moffat Carnegie, known as Sandy, ie my father, in about 1977.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 01:58 GMT (UK)
Their youngest son, Reginald Mein Carnegie, ie my uncle, in 2017, age 72.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 02:01 GMT (UK)
Margaret Mein Carnegie nee Moffat in the early 1960s.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 02:13 GMT (UK)
There was a BFI documentary film made in the 1960s about the Chelsea Bridge Boys who were bikers.  Uncle Reg (Reginald Mein Carnegie, Margaret Mein Moffat's son) was one of them and he was interviewed for it.  It's available to view on YouTube.  Here's a still of Reg from the BFI film.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 05:51 GMT (UK)
Margaret and her brother George Moffat's grave in Garratt Lane Cemetary, London SW17.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: chastewhite on Tuesday 12 January 21 05:56 GMT (UK)
The Carnegie grave in Troqueer Cemetary, Dumfries.
Title: Re: Chance Inn
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 12 January 21 10:16 GMT (UK)
A family named Mein ran the post office in Edinburgh for many years in the early 19th cent?

Skoosh.
Title: Chance Inn
Post by: EESS on Tuesday 18 May 21 22:29 BST (UK)
Hello from Canada.
I am very new to this site, and by sheer coincidence I came across you posts.  From what I can discern from your messages and photos, you and I are 2nd cousins-once removed, and your father & I are 2nd cousins. Your father & I have been emailing each other for about the past 18 months, so please confirm my legitimacy with him.
I've attached 2 photos I inherited from my grandfather you might find of interest.  The inscription on the back of the first photo says: Bill, Teen, and Sandy.  On the back of the 2nd photo: Margaret, Bill, and Christina.  (I've shared these photos with your Dad).  Bill was my grandfather's brother.
Hopefully you are who I think you are and we can connect and share more family information.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you!