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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: cupcake on Tuesday 21 April 20 11:11 BST (UK)
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Could anyone please tell me if there was a " Chance Inn" in Dumfries. I have a photograph of my ancestors outside this Inn. Sorry, there is no date.
Thank you
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Are you sure it's in Dumfries?
Scotlands Places list one in Fife and Kinross and Forfarshire.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/
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No, I am not sure whether it was in Dumfries. My ancestors were from Dumfries so, I thought perhaps it may have been there. I know at some stage they had a pub at Troqueer , Dumfries - no other details.
Thank you
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Are you sure it's in Dumfries?
Scotlands Places list one in Fife and Kinross and Forfarshire.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/
I don't know the Fife one but there are two in Angus.
One in the parish of Inverkeilor. The original Chance Inn was at what is now Cotton of Inchock
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5419178
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.62623&lon=-2.52897&layers=5&b=1 but the inn in the village of Inverkeilor was also called the Chance Inn.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3997268 It survived into the 21st century but is now permanently closed, and the building has been redeveloped as housing.
The other is in the parish of Tannadice. It now seems to be known as Denside Cottage
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.73756&lon=-2.88062&layers=5&b=1
and https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO4660
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Thank you for the info. I am beginning to think they may just have visited the Chance Inn at sometime.
I am almost sure they had the Troqueer Arms/Inn, in Dumfries. No idea of the dates though. His name was Reginald Tupper Carnegie, his wife was Margaret (nee Mofatt) ( . Something I will have to look into.
Thank you Gadget & Forfarian
cupcake
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I see that Reginald Tupper Carnegie was born in Stornoway in 1917, married in Troqueer in 1939 and died in Dumfries in 1972.
The 1940 valuation roll lists seven Chance Inns. One each in Crail and Ceres (Fife), Belhelvie (Aberdeenshire), Kinross, Errol (Perthshire) and Inverkeilor and Tannadice (Angus).
In 1940 Reginald T Carnegie was proprietor and occupier of a bungalow, Brae Rannoch, in Terregles Road, Troqueer. He was charged with wasting fuel in 1944 and his address then was given as Braerannoch, Terregles Road, Dumfries.
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I think we've been looking at the same info.
His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.
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Margaret Moffat was 21 at marraige. She was a typist and living at 4 Maryville or Maryvilla Terrace, Dumfries. Her parents were William Main Moffat, plumber and Christina MS Smith
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Is there any chance of you scanning the photo and putting it up.
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I see that Reginald Tupper Carnegie was born in Stornoway in 1917, married in Troqueer in 1939 and died in Dumfries in 1972.
The 1940 valuation roll lists seven Chance Inns. One each in Crail and Ceres (Fife), Belhelvie (Aberdeenshire), Kinross, Errol (Perthshire) and Inverkeilor and Tannadice (Angus).
In 1940 Reginald T Carnegie was proprietor and occupier of a bungalow, Brae Rannoch, in Terregles Road, Troqueer. He was charged with wasting fuel in 1944 and his address then was given as Braerannoch, Terregles Road, Dumfries.
Thank you for this information I didn't know where Reginald came from. I did however know about the bungalow.
Thank you
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I think we've been looking at the same info.
His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.
More information I didn't have Thank you.
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Margaret Moffat was 21 at marraige. She was a typist and living at 4 Maryville or Maryvilla Terrace, Dumfries. Her parents were William Main Moffat, plumber and Christina MS Smith
The Moffats are my ancestors.
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Is there any chance of you scanning the photo and putting it up.
Photo of Chance Inn perhaps around the 1950's.
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Could posibly be the Inverkeilor one
https://tour-scotland-photographs.blogspot.com/2018/01/old-travel-blog-photograph-chance-inn.html
add - before it was painted!
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Could posibly be the Inverkeilor one
https://tour-scotland-photographs.blogspot.com/2018/01/old-travel-blog-photograph-chance-inn.html
add - before it was painted!
I would agree with you.
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I am only going by the information given to me sometime ago that they were occupiers of a pub/Inn in Dumfries. I think this information could be wrong.
Thank you for answering my messages.
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Just because I'm nosey, what type of merchant was he?
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I think we've been looking at the same info.
His parents were Frank Perry Carnegie, a merchant and Josephine MS Watson. address at marriage was Abbey House, Dumfries.
Sorry I didn't know his father was a merchant.
cupcake
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Gadget
Have sent you a PM
cupcake
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That is definitely the Chance Inn in Inverkeilor. I always remember it as whitewashed - must have passed it hundreds of times on the way to and from our family cottage a few miles away. And of course I've been in for a drink or a pub meal. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
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Just had some information to say they did own the Troqueer Arms, Dumfries also, Margaret bought the the Chance Inn in Inverkeillor, after selling the Troqueer Arms.
cupcake :)
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That is definitely the Chance Inn in Inverkeilor. I always remember it as whitewashed - must have passed it hundreds of times. And of course been in for a drink or a pub meal. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
Thank you for your help. Very much appreciated.I have to agree with you, the sandstone is nicer.
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Angus County Licensing Court on Tuesday granted the following applications—New tenants or occupiers — Mrs Mein or Carnegie, Troqueer Arms, Dumfries, for the Chance Inn, Inverkeilor .... [Arbroath Guide, 3 November 1956; Arbroath Herald etc, 2 November 1956; Montrose Standard, 1 November 1956]
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. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
I think the photo in my link is quite old, going by the clothing of the people, so it must have been painted and then stripped back again!
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. I think it was only stripped back to the (beautiful) Old Red Sandstone relatively recently.
I think the photo in my link is quite old, going by the clothing of the people, so it must have been painted and then stripped back again!
Yes, it must have been.
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Angus County Licensing Court on Tuesday granted the following applications—New tenants or occupiers — Mrs Mein or Carnegie, Troqueer Arms, Dumfries, for the Chance Inn, Inverkeilor .... [Arbroath Guide, 3 November 1956; Arbroath Herald etc, 2 November 1956; Montrose Standard, 1 November 1956]
That gives me dates to refer to. Thanks.
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I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant business was.
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I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant business was.
Wholesale wine and spirit merchant on his death cert. June 1950, aged 79, Dumfries.
Will send
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I am curious to know what Reginald's father merchant business was.
Wholesale wine and spirit merchant on his death cert. June 1950, aged 79, Dumfries.
Will send
Thank you
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1901 census lists in Grangemouth Frank P Carnegie, widower, 28, hotel keeper, born Dundee; son Frank P Carnegie, 2, born Edinburgh, and Ann Y Hamilton, mother-in-law, 74, born West Calder.
It's quite common for a hotel or innkeeper to be described as a wine and spirit merchant in a different document.
There's a marriage of Frank P Carnegie to Annie Y Hamilton in Edinburgh in 1896. Annie Young Carnegie, other surname Dickie, 29, died in Grangemouth in 1899.
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1901 census lists in Grangemouth Frank P Carnegie, widower, 28, hotel keeper, born Dundee; son Frank P Carnegie, 2, born Edinburgh, and Ann Y Hamilton, mother-in-law, 74, born West Calder.
It's quite common for a hotel or innkeeper to be described as a wine and spirit merchant in a different document.
There's a marriage of Frank P Carnegie to Annie Y Hamilton in Edinburgh in 1896. Annie Young Carnegie, other surname Dickie, 29, died in Grangemouth in 1899.
Thank you.
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He married Annie Y Hamilton in 1896 (Mary on death cert!) and Josephine Watson in 1901 (as son's marriage cert Reply #6)
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Error
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This Covid lockdown is answerable for much! Notice La Bruce is now an expert on Leonardo da Vinci !
That went straight over my head!
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error
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Can anyone tell where Abbey House, Dumfries was back in the late 1930's and, is it still there today.
cupcake
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1931 and 1935 Valuation list has it in New Abbey Road. Proprietor is Josephine Carnegie. Occupier is Frank P
:)
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It's on the Troqueer side (Maxwelltown) of the Nith - A710
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https://maps.nls.uk/view/75503261#zoom=5&lat=4570&lon=7567&layers=BT
Will try to find a larger scale map
(add- the1931 25 ins to mile doesn't show it as a named house)
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1931 and 1935 Valuation list has it in New Abbey Road. Proprietor is Josephine Carnegie. Occupier is Frank P
:)
Thank you :)
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https://maps.nls.uk/view/75503261#zoom=5&lat=4570&lon=7567&layers=BT
Will try to find a larger scale map
(add- the1931 25 ins to mile doesn't show it as a named house)
I recognise many of the names on the map. Goldilea - there is a Nursing home called this in that area, and I recall the viaduct.
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Abbey House is not showing as a separate address on current postcode finder.
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It's on the Troqueer side (Maxwelltown) of the Nith - A710
I do get a tad mixed up with the bounderies back then. I know Dumfries well or, I thought I did.
Many thanks :D
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Abbey House is not showing as a separate address on current postcode finder.
Thank you for taking the time to look for me.
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You're welcome. I'm fond of Dumfries. Some of my ancestors were born there and more were buried there :)
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You're welcome. I'm fond of Dumfries. Some of my ancestors were born there and more were buried there :)
I don't know when you were there last but, it has changed so much. Some buildings are looking so tired. Imagine you will have some fond memories of Dumfries.
Do miss the Ewart library being closed at the moment. :(
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I was there two or three years ago. It's not too far from here - cross country and up to the A74/75. It's usually sunny when we go there :D
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We are certainly having glorious weather just now, it hasn't rained for about 6 weeks - just before the lockdown. Sadly, I believe it has to break next week which won't be much fun.
Stay safe :)
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I wish I'd come across this post months ago, as I could have told you straight away that my granny (Margaret Mein Carnegie nee Moffat) left Dumfries after she separated from my grandfather, Reginald Tupper Carnegie, in 1955, and moved to Inverkeilor to run The Chance Inn. I currently live just 7 miles from Inverkeilor and The Chance Inn has sadly been closed for several years now after the smoking ban meant the there were very few customers still going there. I have that photograph myself and it is definitely of my granny and her parents, William and Christina Moffat, so it would have been taken between 1955 an 1961 but I don't know exactly what year. Granny left Inverkeilor in 1961 and moved to Balham in south west London to be the landlady of bedsits in the large house that she bought and lived in. She died of throat cancer in London on 7th December 1969. My grandfather was an alcoholic and that's what led to the breakdown of their marriage in Dumfries. When my granny died he inherited her house in London (they never divorced as he refused to agree to a divorce) and he and lived there for a while with his second wife, Christine, before selling the house to his eldest son Alexander, ie my father. My grandfather ended up living in a caravan in the grounds of Caerlaverock Castle near Dumfries and he died of cirhossis of the liver on 7th December 1972.
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Margaret Mein Moffat outside her parents' house at 101 Brooms Road, Dumfries in 1938, with her dog Rex.
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The same house a few years ago.
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Abbey House, Dumfries.
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and from the other side.
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This is the house called Braerannoch.
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My grandparents' family home, Rosefield House in Troqueer Road, Dumfries, which they converted into The Troqueer Arms in 1952.
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It's still trading as far as I know.
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Margaret and Reginald's eldest son, Alexander Perrie Moffat Carnegie, known as Sandy, ie my father, in about 1977.
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Their youngest son, Reginald Mein Carnegie, ie my uncle, in 2017, age 72.
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Margaret Mein Carnegie nee Moffat in the early 1960s.
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There was a BFI documentary film made in the 1960s about the Chelsea Bridge Boys who were bikers. Uncle Reg (Reginald Mein Carnegie, Margaret Mein Moffat's son) was one of them and he was interviewed for it. It's available to view on YouTube. Here's a still of Reg from the BFI film.
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Margaret and her brother George Moffat's grave in Garratt Lane Cemetary, London SW17.
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The Carnegie grave in Troqueer Cemetary, Dumfries.
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A family named Mein ran the post office in Edinburgh for many years in the early 19th cent?
Skoosh.
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Hello from Canada.
I am very new to this site, and by sheer coincidence I came across you posts. From what I can discern from your messages and photos, you and I are 2nd cousins-once removed, and your father & I are 2nd cousins. Your father & I have been emailing each other for about the past 18 months, so please confirm my legitimacy with him.
I've attached 2 photos I inherited from my grandfather you might find of interest. The inscription on the back of the first photo says: Bill, Teen, and Sandy. On the back of the 2nd photo: Margaret, Bill, and Christina. (I've shared these photos with your Dad). Bill was my grandfather's brother.
Hopefully you are who I think you are and we can connect and share more family information.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you!