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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: WAND on Thursday 16 April 20 20:29 BST (UK)

Title: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: WAND on Thursday 16 April 20 20:29 BST (UK)
Hi
l am trying to discover the uniform that the solider is wearing.
It could be a photo of my grandfather.

 He served with King's Royal Rifle Corps, Royal Field Artillery  served 26/04/1917 until 18/11/17 France then 19/11/1917 -09/02/1919  Italy.

If anyone can help it would be appreciated, to prove or dismiss the connection.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: SiGr on Thursday 16 April 20 21:14 BST (UK)
There are no distinguishing badges or rank visible on his uniform. What you can say is:
a). he has the ribbons of the British War Medal and the Victory Medal from WW1,
b), his uniform is that of a soldier (as opposed to an officer) from WW2, not WW1. So likely he was in the Home Guard.
c). it might be a trick of the light or my poor eyesight but is there some sort of patch on the bottom third of his epaulette ?
Sorry I cannot be more helpful.
Good luck with your research.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: WAND on Thursday 16 April 20 21:27 BST (UK)

Many thanks for your reply
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 16 April 20 23:50 BST (UK)
There are no distinguishing badges or rank visible on his uniform. What you can say is:
a). he has the ribbons of the British War Medal and the Victory Medal from WW1,
b), his uniform is that of a soldier (as opposed to an officer) from WW2, not WW1. So likely he was in the Home Guard.
c). it might be a trick of the light or my poor eyesight but is there some sort of patch on the bottom third of his epaulette ?
Sorry I cannot be more helpful.
Good luck with your research.

Yes I see a patch too, though it is not at all clear. Is there something below that, on his sleeve too?   :-\
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: barryd on Friday 17 April 20 07:10 BST (UK)
How old is he? That may help if we have an age expert.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: MaxD on Friday 17 April 20 10:33 BST (UK)
The sleeve badge could well be half of the formation badge of 4th Indian Division:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30076414

The division order of battle is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Infantry_Division_(India).

Can't make out the epaulette badge but these were also formation insignia - possibly one of the brigades.

The above would suggest a serving soldier so barryd's query about his age will help?  Would you like to give his name?


MaxD
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: MaxD on Friday 17 April 20 10:47 BST (UK)
My amateur efforts at making the epaulette badge readable give me two letters which may be a regimental title (RA ????? wishful thinking)  Can someone do better with photo manipulation?

MaxD
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Regorian on Friday 17 April 20 10:56 BST (UK)
Uniform is battle dress so WWII as pointed out. Also he looks too young for WWI.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 17 April 20 11:46 BST (UK)
Quote
Also he looks too young for WWI.

Are they not WW1 medal ribbons?
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: WAND on Friday 17 April 20 14:47 BST (UK)





Thank you all for your efforts.

My grandfather name is James Ernest Jones born 1886. He enlisted 07/02/1917 age 21
He served with King's Royal Rifle Corps, Royal Field Artillery  served 26/04/1917 until 18/11/17 France then 19/11/1917 -09/02/1919  Italy. Transferred to Class Z reserve 11 03 1919 demob 31 03 1920

He re enlisted 01.04.1940 into the Rifle Brigade embodied Territorial Army discharged 15 06 1942

My grandfather passed away many years ago. This photo could be him so l thought l would see if anyone could identify the uniform. l don't have the orginal just a this. l appriecate all the help

So it seems as if it is a uniform from WW2. Grandad did received British War Medal and the Victory Medal from WW1. As of his generation he did not speak of his war. All bar one of his children have passed away. My auntie thinks it is him but she was evacuated for the duration. She was a small child. I have added a picture of him in 1953, to see if anyone thinks they could be the same.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 17 April 20 15:04 BST (UK)
I think your grandfather is not the soldier.
(noses are different, chins are different, face shapes are different ... I can't see well enough on my monitor to compare ears though.)  :)
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: WAND on Friday 17 April 20 15:06 BST (UK)
I think that you are most likely right but would a solider be allowed to wear WW1 medals on a WW2 uniform.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 17 April 20 15:41 BST (UK)
Quote
I think that you are most likely right but would a solider be allowed to wear WW1 medals on a WW2 uniform.

Definitely - as a ribbon strip.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 18 April 20 11:03 BST (UK)
It is clear that the query refers to a WW2 uniform and is unlikely to be James Ernest Jones.  Do you have any possible candidates for the man?

MaxD

Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 18 April 20 11:43 BST (UK)
This might help...I thought the white mark on his left sleeve might be a propeller but I think it is damage.
Carol
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 18 April 20 12:13 BST (UK)
My earlier suggestion that it is the left hand half  of the formation sign of 4th Indian division seems to have fallen on stony ground.  Here again with a pic this time instead of a link. Note the downward slope of the eagle's head to the left - and yes it does look like a damaged propeller.

Carol - can you do anything with the epaulette patch, there are letters on it.

MaxD
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 18 April 20 12:31 BST (UK)
My earlier suggestion that it is the left hand half  of the formation sign of 4th Indian division seems to have fallen on stony ground.  Here again with a pic this time instead of a link. Note the downward slope of the eagle's head to the left - and yes it does look like a damaged propeller.

Carol - can you do anything with the epaulette patch, there are letters on it.

MaxD

I think it looks very much like the image of the bird. My one doubt would be that on the sleeve "the thing" comes up as being very pale/white, whereas the bird is red, so I am not sure there would be such a contrast in a black and white photo. :-\
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Crumblie on Saturday 18 April 20 12:34 BST (UK)
Being ex-RAF when I saw the uniform and the forage cap I immediately thought that is what is but the fact that there is something on the epaulette makes me think otherwise.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 18 April 20 13:15 BST (UK)

Carol - can you do anything with the epaulette patch, there are letters on it.

MaxD

I tried but the best option would be a high resolution scan of just the epaulette patch, at about 400 dpi. it could be a K or X ???

Carol
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: John915 on Saturday 18 April 20 13:47 BST (UK)
Good afternoon,

KRRC shoulder flash I would say. Definately KR to start.

John915
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: WAND on Saturday 18 April 20 15:49 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for the help.
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 18 April 20 15:52 BST (UK)
A bit of a clean for you.
Carol
Title: Re: Trying to identify the uniform WW1
Post by: MaecW on Monday 20 April 20 03:34 BST (UK)
I read the epaulet slide as "HG". I can't find a readable example online but I'm sure these were issued for a time with early battledress before the standard "Home Guard" shoulder flashes were available.
I think our man is a First War vet serving in the Home Guard in WW2 - the age and medal ribbons look.
The arm mark is too indistinct to be sure but it could be a formation flash.  Did the HG wear these early in the War ?