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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BroomeAussie on Thursday 16 April 20 09:15 BST (UK)
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???As a newbie at this I am seeking further information on the following.
My mother(deceased) Barbara Frances Brimley as she was in 1947, was in the employ as a housekeeper of a man named Ivan BOYD & his wife, her name is not known to me, . My mother told me he was in fact Sir Ivan BOYD with strong work connections with India but I am unaware of the nature of it. I am unaware if the title she said he held is correct or not.
I have been unable to ascertain any information on this person.
He made a big impact on my mother as some years later I was named after him.I never met him but possess a solid silver cream jug he presented to me at my Christening and which contains a note advising he had close connections with the British Royal Family and that the jug appeared daily on the breakfast tray of the Queen Mother.
I also have poems hand written by BOYD which he gave to my mother in which he states they lived at "Sea Haven". This could be a town in Sussex or the name of their house anywhere. It did in fact a sea views according to the poems.
Confusion reigns however as the poems are signed of with only initials G.A.H.B. dated 25.12.47. The "B" could be for his surname but the others are a mystery.
Any information or suggestions would be appreciated
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I have no idea about Ivan, other than contacting someone relating to the Royal Family to see if they can find anything.
I don't think we can do 1939 Register look-ups (can someone confirm if that's still a thing?) but I do note the presence of a George A H BOYD, fishmarket porter. This chap would be 78 in 1947.
When and where was the last time you know Ivan was alive? If this was your christening, are you willing to say what year that was?
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I have no idea about Ivan, other than contacting someone relating to the Royal Family to see if they can find anything.
I don't think we can do 1939 Register look-ups (can someone confirm if that's still a thing?) but I do note the presence of a George A H BOYD, fishmarket porter. This chap would be 78 in 1947.
He died in 1944
Presumably your mother worked as Housekeeper after leaving nursing and before marrying your father
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Ah, although other than the initials and the fish, I didn't have anything else on him. I thought getting a son as a sir would be a bit of a step up but stranger things... lol
At the moment I'm looking at Ivan Campbell BOYD. I can see he had ties with India-
Name: Ivan Campbell Boyd
Arrival Age: 40
Birth Date: abt 1882
Port of Departure: Bombay, India
Arrival Date: 16 Apr 1922
Port of Arrival: Plymouth, England
Ports of Voyage: Port Said
Ship Name: Mandala
Shipping Line: British India Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 137806
Anc suggests:
Ivan Campbell BOYD born 1 qr 1882, Lisburn, Ireland
Ivan Campbell BOYD married 3 qr 1904, Settle, Yorkshire
Ivan C BOYD died 1 qr 1950, Devon Central, Devon
Probate confirms Ivan Campbell BOYD of London, died in Devon, probate to Margaret BOYD, widow.
The shipping image above shows Ivan as Indian Police. His wife Margaret, of Pall Mall (same as probate) was on the voyage as well.
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Ivan Campbell Boyd was something to do with the Indian Police.
He was married on 29 September 1904 at Thornton in Lonsdale Parish church to Margaret Mackenzie. His occupation given as Assistant Superintendent Bombay District Police and his address was Jalgdon Khandesh Bombay, her address Thornton in Lonsdale. Ivan’s father James ?Steam Boyd retired merchant and hers Thomas Mackenzie suregeon.
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Hi,
From FreeBMD: Deaths Mar 1950 Devon C 5B 390 Boyd, Ivan C Age 68
Regards, Tony.
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In the 1922 New Years Honours list, Ivan Campbell BOYD got a King's Police Medal.
Ivan Campbell Boyd, District Superintendent, Bombay Police.
(Wikipedia)
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Hi,
From FreeBMD: Deaths Mar 1950 Devon C 5B 390 Boyd, Ivan C Age 68
Regards, Tony.
He died 26 March 1950 at Knappe Cross Hotel nr Exmouth, Devon.
The child that received the christening present was born around 12 months later
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Anc suggests:
Ivan Campbell BOYD born 1 qr 1882, Lisburn, Ireland
Born 4th February 1882, father James Steen Boyd a merchant and mother Ellen Campbell.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02798/2026928.pdf
KG
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He died 26 March 1950 at Knappe Cross Hotel nr Exmouth, Devon.
The child that received the christening present was born around 12 months later
How do you know when the christening was? The only date I've seen mentioned so far is 1947.
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If you use freebmd for the Marriage and children of the marriage you can work it out from the information given.
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Ah, I see. That's awkward (although that's why I asked OP when the christening was, in case of such conflict). I thought we were onto a good lead here. That said, maybe the stories about him have got muddled with this other man? Does OP know he was alive for the christening, or perhaps he gave an earlier gift after the marriage "for the christening of your first little one", especially if he knew he was dying? Pulling at straws there perhaps. Maybe given by the widow or another close relative, in the "he'd want you to have it" kind of way?
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Hi Ayashi
Many thanks. I do not know when he died. I can tell you my Christening was 1951.
Cheers
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Good morning Ayashi
Thanks again.
Strange coincidence....I too am a retired 33 year career senior officer in the Western Australian Police Force.
Not saying this is my man but very coincidental.
Thanks to everyone for your input & assistance.
BroomeAussie
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Born 4th February 1882, father James Steen Boyd a merchant and mother Ellen Campbell.
also a daughter - Ellen Campbell Boyd born Belfast ,Antrim
13 years before - in 1869
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K6MC-DPM - more family members
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Have you found your Mother on ER's for 1947 or 1948?
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Have you any wedding photos for your parents that may show him as a guest, or newspaper articles that mention him. What was your mothers address and occupation on her marriage certificate
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What a puzzle.
I think it might be helpful to have photos of the cream jug (including any inscription*) and its accompanying note, and perhaps also the poems, in case there are further clues.
*Obviously not if this feels too sensitive or identifying.
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AVM228
Hi
I am happy to supply a photo of the jug, see attached, the note is typed and only gives the clues mentioned previously.
Thanks
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The engraving certainly doesn't look English but perhaps more Far East than Indian??
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What does the hallmark say as to age, country of origin and possible maker?
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Hi All
I have attached a 2nd photo showing Hallmarks. Some years ago I had it authenticated in Perth, Western Australia. They only stated it was confirmed silver but nothing else. Happy for anyone else to have a go.
BroomeAussie
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Is it possible to just see the Hallmarks. The 2nd & 5th are not very clear
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SR CB is the hallmark for Samuel Roberts & Charles Belk for Roberts & Belk
http://www.silvercollection.it/ENGLAROBERTS&BELK.html
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So it looks like it’s 19th-century Sheffield silver engraved with themes from (perhaps) China?
If I am correct in reading the letter mark as K then that would seem to correspond to 1877:
www.thebigworld.co.uk/dating_english_hallmarks_silver_and_gold.htm
(NB I have absolutely no relevant expertise).
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The West India Royal Commission Report (1938-1939) mentions a G A H Boyd
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There is an Ivan C Boyd living at 26 Esmond Court, Kensington on 1946 ER's. With him is listed Alice M Kingsford.
She is on her own in 1945 and 1947.
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In 1927 Mrs Ivan C Boyd is living at 'The Manor House' Barford St John, Oxford
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I cannot believe how many people are assisting in this search. Thanks to all involved.
I have attached a close up of the Hallmarks so hope this assists.
The reference to the mention of BOYD in the 1938-1938 Royal Commission is proving difficult to locate.
Thanks again folks
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Mark on far right looks like a bust:
https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/Sheffield/Date%20Letters%20K.html
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Perhaps Queen Victoria's head??
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The reference to the mention of BOYD in the 1938-1938 Royal Commission is proving difficult to locate.
I found it on a Google books search
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If anyone has access to The Irish Times for March 4th 1871, there might be a reference to G A H Boyd and the India Office.
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Back to Ivan C Boyd.
His parents married in Sligo in 1875.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11204/8105954.pdf
James S gives his profession as Gent, and his residence as Belmount(?), Carrickfergus, Co Antrim.
Ellen was a Minor, and gives her residence as Hermitage, Sligo. Her father was Harper Campbell (Gent).
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=532
Their first child – Mary Ellen 1876, born at 20 University Square, Belfast
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03072/2126178.pdf
KG
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+Ellen Campbell (1854- ) m. 14 April 1875, St John Church of Ireland, Sligo. Ellen was the youngest daughter of Harper Campbell, Esq., JP, Hermitage, Sligo.
* In 1887 JSB had taken a court case against the Belfast Harbour Commissioners. JSB was managing director of both the Belfast Warehouse Company (which he founded in 1873) and the Discount Corporation of Ireland; both failed in 1894. He was also managing director of the Old Bushmills Distillery Company when it went into liquidation in 1896. His mansion and estate at Rosemount**, Dunmurry, were sold in 1900 when his address was Gower Street, London; he died in 1920 in Ferndale, Sevenoaks, Kent.
** The 1890 Street Directory gives JSB’s address as Dunmurry House. Mary Ellen Boyd (1876-1936) plus two other siblings (two still living in 1911)
Mary Ellen was born 16 Jan at 20 University Square, Belfast. A son (1882-????) 4 Feb 1882 at Dunmurry House, Dunmurry
(Presumably this is Ivan Campbell Boyd (d.1950), police superintendent, Bombay, referred to in the will of JSB.)
https://www.bloomfieldbelfast.co.uk/resources/Boyd%2C%20Robert%2C%20family%20tree.pdf
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Hi All
The 1920 Bombay Police Annual Report shows Ivan C BOYD as the Acting Commissioner of Police.
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As Ivan died in 1950 it may be a good idea to get a copy of his will.
It may also be worthwhile trying to locate your mother on electoral registers before her marriage as already suggested.
Also
Have you any wedding photos for your parents that may show him as a guest, or newspaper articles that mention him. What was your mothers address and occupation on her marriage certificate
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I thought of the will and then forgot to post about it when I got to the computer.
If he and your mother were close, she might well be mentioned. Potentially that might be where the jug came from.
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'I also have poems hand written by BOYD which he gave to my mother in which he states they lived at "Sea Haven". This could be a town in Sussex or the name of their house anywhere. It did in fact a sea views according to the poems.'
Have you tried to find Sea Haven in 1939, just to give you some indication of how many houses appear - though unfortunately several other houses with names seem to be mis-transcribed and do not result in a hit. Sussex does have a Sea Haven.
In addition, you could look for references to Sea Haven in the newspapers for 1945-1949, just to see what is around.
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- deleted -
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The question is very personally invasive but the short answer is a definite no.
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Apologies. Post deleted.
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Hi Ruskie
No drama. Accepted with thanks.
I appreciate all the input from everyone.
BroomeAussie
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Hi Chempat & all
It has been a busy weekend even in lock down!
I have chased up on Sea Haven. It could be the town or any one of a number of properties with that name.
The poems are very general in tone and content and cover a wide variety of subjects. None romantic and include the names of his dogs of which there appear to be at least 4. Others refer to "Odes" of various kinds i.e. lawyers which I have also tried to trace with no luck. No names of course.
Oh well must keep digging.
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As we have already mentioned you may be better trying to trace where your mother was living prior to her marriage. When did she stop nursing
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The Sussex town is usually one word - Seahaven.
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Hi to Everyone
Things have gone quiet but not for me.
I have been in contact with both the Oxford Council and the Budleigh Salterton Town Council in Devon where one lead took me.
Neither was able to assist advising they kept records of properties, not people. I asked that a trace be undertaken for the properties named but that failed.
I have also had wonderful contact with a Doctor at the Oxford Archaeological Historical Society regarding "The Manor House", Barford St James, Oxford. She was most helpful and conducted searches on my behalf but again could not locate the records required for tenants there in 1927.
I have now written a formal letter to the current occupants seeking their input but as no email can be located it is by old fashioned "snail mail" so may take a while.
I am most impressed with so many people, all of you for your guidance and assistance.
Many thanks to you all.
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Find a Will Service
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar
Currently £1.50 per will?
Ivan Campbell Boyd
Death 1950
Boyd Ivan Campbell care of Lloyds Bank Limited, 6 Pall Mall, London S.W.1 died 26 March 1950 at Knappe Cross Hotel near Exmouth, Devonshire. Probate London 26 August to Margaret Boyd, widow.
Effects £5248 5s 3d.
Also:
James S Boyd
Death 1920
Boyd James Steen of Ferndale, Sevenoaks, Kent died 13 February 1920. Probate London 11 March to Ivan Campbell Boyd, police superintendent.
Effects £971 7s 10d
Mary Ellen Boyd
Death 1936
Boyd Mary Ellen of Rye Cottage, Moor Road, Headingley, Leeds, spinster died 15 March 1936. Probate London 6 July to Ivan Campbell Boyd, chartered surveyor.
Effects £2993 17s 6d
KG
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James S and Mary Ellen Boyd in 1911 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDL-4YN
KG
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Hi KG
Many many thanks for this latest info.
I was working on a couple of doubtful leads but this is of immense help.
I was beginning to suspect I would never get anywhere.
This is very gratefully received.
Cheers and stay safe
BA
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Hoping everyone is well.
It has been a while & things have progressed well but again a dead end has been encountered.
I am trying to establish:
1. When & how Ivan Boyd traveled to India in 1902 to take up his original police posting.
2. Anything at all after retirement in 1927 when he joined H.S. King & Co in Bombay.
3. When he left India and returned to England & by what means of travel.
4. Where he resided in England after his final return.
I do have an address of 26 Esmond Court, Kensington. S.W. London & his location of death in Devon.
Many thanks
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FIBIS (Families in British India Society) has Ivan Cameron Boyd marrying Margaret Mackenzie in 1904.
and
listed on the Roll of Indian Police Officers
1902 -
www.fibis.org
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Did you get Ivan's will
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Hello Bearkat & Rosie99
Thanks again.
Yes I did get the probate notice but not the entire Will but don't if that is even possible.
I have the marriage information too thanks & will try FIBIS.
I wrote a snail mail letter to "the Manor House", Barford St John and received an email today from the current occupier. Fantastic to even get a reply. They provided a new lead to follow.
Cheers all
BroomeAussie
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If this was the document you purchased from the probate office then it is the will
Ivan Campbell Boyd
Death 1950
Boyd Ivan Campbell care of Lloyds Bank Limited, 6 Pall Mall, London S.W.1 died 26 March 1950 at Knappe Cross Hotel near Exmouth, Devonshire. Probate London 26 August to Margaret Boyd, widow.
Effects £5248 5s 3d.
It obviously gave no further clues to residences or people
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Hi
Yes that is the one thanks.
Slowly gaining ground here thanks to you & others.
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Hi Bearkat
Trying to chase up your lead in West India Royal Commission however can find no ref to G A H Boyd any tips please?
Thanks
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Searching Google books for
G A H Boyd Great Britain West India Royal Commission
the 2nd result I get is Report - Page 476
There's just a snippet view of the page heading which does not show GAH Boyd.
Individuals & Associations, other than those who gave oral evidence, from whom memoranda were received
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When I try that search it tells me that the result does not include 'G A H Boyd'
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Hello to all who have helped. Hoping you all are well.
I have 3 time periods where I can find absolutely nothing for Ivan BOYD.
What happened after 1927 when he retired from Bombay Police Dept. i.e. travel back to the UK?
I can find absolutely nothing between 1931 - 1946?
I have an address in Kensington but that is dubious.
Then from 1946 to 1950 when he died I have ZERO info on his location except he died at Knappe Cross, Devon.
In 1954 his wife died at West Terrace, Budleigh Salterton, Devon but there is nothing on him having lived there prior to his death.
Anything will help. Kind regards
BA